To think Oprah may be being a little inflammatory?

[fackinell]

I very much admire Oprah Winfrey but I'm a little concerned by the news that she think the incident with the handbag in Switzerland may have been racially motivated.

IMO everyone is equal based solely on their actions so prepared to be told I am U. I can be a bit of a scruff and on a few occasions have been informed that something is out of my price range. I am white, British, 40 something and put it down to snobbery of the assistant involved, making a snap judgement on me.

I feel Oprah's comments could invoke a bit of animosity the (hopefully) calming race division. With each generation the former issues seem to be diluting (I haven't heard a racist comment in anyone under 40 for years.) isn't this just stirring trouble where there may not necessary be any?

Namechanged, if you had read the whole post you would have seen that I have heard racist comments and also had them directed at me. Please read before adding your comment.

I am not surprised in the slightest.
Switzerland is the most racist country I've ever lived in.

The commission the shop assistant would have made was equivalent to 7 months pay apparently. Good!

I have read it all. Not sure you have. Get back to me once you're through that article on privilege.

My point is you say -(despite a good 20 people of colour telling you the opposite) that you haven't heard racist language from the under 40sand I am pointing out that you might not have because you are white.

Of course I'm not saying Oprah should STFU, she is entitled to have an opinion and if racism has occurred, speak out about it. What bothered me was the 'may have been,' comment.

My ex (black guy) used to make comments all the time about situations. He genuinely swore he had never had any racism directed at him, in all the years I was with him I never witnessed any. If we walked into a restaurant and were asked to wait to be seated, he would crack jokes like 'its cos I is black, innit!' I'm not being flippant but this is what he was like. He really couldn't get his head around racism because he claimed he had never experienced it. He was shocked that two Jamaican friends had experienced horrendous racism on holiday in South Africa, but also claimed not to have been treated that way in their home country of England.

Namechanged, I have read the article and it was both interesting and thought-provoking. Far from wanting to piss people off I did genuinely want to know opinions, which I have had. I guess I'm just a 70s peace and love, hippyshit kind of person that would still embrace a melting pot and would like to think no malice was meant to Oprah. But hey-ho, one nil to her and feck all and a bad rep to the bitch that shat on her.

I think she said it "may have been" not because she's not sure, but more because saying the lady was 100% for sure without a doubt racist could invite greedy defamation lawsuits and all sorts, for anyone wanting a piece of Oprah's pie.

Saying "may of been" cleverly, subtly plants the seed, gets spun by the media into bad publicity for the shop owner, without any legal issues for Oprah. Justly done.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right, Shabby. She's got to where she is by being an intelligent businesswoman. I shall take my U arse off to bed now. Thank you for the input, all. Never a boring debate on MN for sure.

What I think is sad is that Oprah must have been expecting this debate about what she might have been wearing and felt the need to describe her outfit in her initial interviews.

Because suggesting "perhaps she was dressed in X or Y and that's why" is in some way excusing the shop assistant when their is no excuse.

And it must be something that she has experienced before, this excuse making, this need to find a different reason to dismiss what she knows is the real reason.

This is what she said in the interview I read on-line.

"I was in Zurich the other day, in a store whose name I will not mention. I didn't have my eyelashes on, but I was in full Oprah Winfrey gear. I had my little Donna Karan skirt and my little sandals. But obviously The Oprah Winfrey Show is not shown in Zurich."

"I go into a store and I say to the woman, 'Excuse me, may I see the bag right above your head?' and she says to me, 'No. It's too expensive.'"

According to Oprah, she asked again and the assistant replied "'No, no you don?t want to see that one, you want to see this one because that one will cost too much. You will not be able to afford that.'"

That should read "when there is no excuse", not "their is now excuse", sorry.

I don't know whether it was racist or not, but it was spectacularly stupid on behalf of the shop assistant. She could never know if any prospective customer, regardless of their race, could or could not afford the items her store was selling. If people are prepared to judge on appearance (regardless of race) then they deserve all the flak they get. I know people who could buy and sell me who look like they've slept in a skip.

OP. let me be very clear as you seem not to have grasped this point. You told MrsDeV that she may not have heard an expression like sweaty sock because she is not Scottish. Likewise the fact that you say you have heard no racism from under 40s is likely to be because you are white. Your credibility to comment is therefor compromised. As is mine on the experience of being both Blake and Scottish.

I believe you in your own wish to see equality. The thing is that if wanting to believe the best in the world leads you to question the lived experience of someone in the firing line you run the risk of working for enemy .

And bring inflammatory. As you unintentionally were.

How can Oprah be sure it was racism and not just snobbery? She compared it to the Pretty Woman scene herself - does she not realise Julia Roberts is white?

People working in luxury shops do judge on appearance. As long as they're not rude, it's not offensive. We've all heard of Howard Hughes, but most people who can afford a $30,000 handbag don't look like bag ladies.

But that wasn't the issue here because Oprah was well-dressed and presumably has a confident air. It was the colour of her face that didn't fit.

I haven't heard a racist comment in anyone under 40 for years

But have you been to Switzerland?

There is a move to stop asylum seekers being allowed in certain city centres, swimming pools, libraries, school yards.

Some areas have already implemented laws banning asylum seekers. These are not illegal immigrants, they are people legally entitled to be in Switzerland.

Just to add, as it's being touted as a badge of authenticity..I'm English and have travelled round the country extensively. I've also lived in Scotland for (nearly) 16 years and not once have I heard the term "sweaty sock"as a racist term applied to Scottish people.

If someone says they've been referred to in that way I wouldn't presume to tell them it didn't happen/they misheard/they are being too sensitive (insert dismissive variation here).

I'm quite sure Oprah Winfrey is aware that Julia Roberts character in Pretty Woman is white.

It's not stretching credibility to suppose that someone can be both a snob and a racist.

I've heard what you say about Switzerland too sashh, and seen the posters. I've also seen and heard the attitudes of people in France, Italy, Spain, Poland and Romania. Don't know about other countries.

But I'm also finding it hard to believe that anyone but the profoundly deaf hasn't heard a racist comment uttered by British under-40s in Britain, which is where I assume the OP is from.

I heard one on Wednesday in the racial paradise that is London, so fuck knows what it's like elsewhere.

I'm a bit concerned about appearing the right-on anti-racist white lady btw but what can I do?

I was particularly angry about a Romanian legal immigrant who was complaining to me about her British neighbours, not because they'd done anything bad, but because they were black.

Go home, was on the tip of my tongue. But I didn't say it. Maybe I should be less concerned about appearing xenophobic in future.

All people are welcome in my country. Including the non-racist white ones.

This:

"Sometimes you can't win when you're black. Nooooo racism doesn't exist we're just too sensitive! Even in extremely racist countries they're just not used to seeing black people so we should get over ourselves. Trust me as a black woman I don't bother talking about the almost daily examples of racism I have experienced as it is not worth it. Sometimes I don't even bother my white dh with it! If Oprah can't highlight this however silly most people think it is, then who can?? Trust me people don't have to SAY I am treating you this way because you are not white for it to be racist!"

and this:

"Isn't it funny how some white people tend to think that racism is very rare, and may have ended in the 70's whereas almost all black people seem to believe that racism does in fact, exist?"

Is it racist or xenophobic to object to people who settle in this country who have different values to me?

Normally, I'd say it was. But there are values that I jealously guard as fundamental to British society - an objection to racism and sexism being two of them. Even if most people pay lip service to both.

I don't like incomers who object to people who also have an established right to be here, just because in their country of origin they aren't used to seeing those people, or are allowed to treat them as lesser citizens when they do.

I do think in that case it's okay for me to say: 'fuck off and don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.'

re 'sweaty sock'.

I presume it is rhyming slang, and therefore only used in certain parts of London, not country wide and not even London wide. And rhyming slang conventions generally just use something that rhymes. the meaning is the original word - in this case 'jock'. Is 'jock' an offensive term for Scottish people? I don't know, I really don't. If it is derogatory I certanly won't use it.

OP - you found 'sweaty sock' 'racist' - but what if it is just a way to rhyme 'jock' and isn't meant as racist at all? But no-one has questioned your right to feel upset by the phrase.

Blu, I personally don't mind Jock. To me it sounds affectionate rather than derogatory like some collective nicknames. I know some people don't like it but to me it's like Mick, Taff etc and I haven't heard any Irish or Welsh friends complain about that.

What is insulting is Sweaty Sock. I heard it in N. London, W. London and Surrey. It's always been attached to an insult so no, I hate that reference. It is Cockney rhyming slang as I thought. Just googled.

I'm Scottish and currently living in England. I've never been called a "sweaty sock" but would find it a bit insulting. I don't like "jock" either though.

Well, she may be being inflammatory. But good for her really. In her shoes,given she has a voice in the way many who experience similar do not, I would do the same thing.

I'm Welsh and almost every English person I've ever met has called me a sheep shagger/made fun of the Welsh language to my face.

I don't like it. But if I say anything I get called "chippy".