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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU or is my employer? Re: Flexible working

75 replies

busterboy · 07/08/2013 16:24

Have name changed as I would be easy to identify based on previous posts.

I am currently on mat leave and asked my boss off the record if a flexible working request could be granted so that i could go back four days instead of full time.

I was told maybe if I drop a grade. This would be approx £6k paycut just for dropping grade then obviously an additional 20% cut for cutting down my hours.

I have quite a senior job but not director level.

I feel like this is a bit dodgy as it's mainly women who want the flexible requests so its a bit sexist.

I am not usually one for causing trouble at work but I would really like to get this request granted on my current level.

AIBU or are they....

OP posts:
LittleMissNorty · 08/08/2013 09:49

I think you need to argue your point in your flexible working request, why you think it will work, how you would propose spending the 20% of your salary it frees up etc. If you accepted a lower band then it's not the same job and you should have a different job description.

Have you thought about working 4 longs days and staying FT in effect, or a 9 day fortnight? Or some hours from home? (may not be possible in your job bit an additional way of getting some flexibility and staying FT.

Original poster
busterboy · 08/08/2013 14:52

I think i would defo need to get a new job description in writing and ask who will be doing my old role as i have a feeling it will just be the same job and no-one will be doing my old role.

I have been thinking about nine days fortnights and compressed hours but am starting to think that going back full time and using my holidays to make a part time role for myself. i will have seven weeks of holidays to use in the first six months back as i will have accrued all my holidays and bank holidays whilst on mat leave. i would like to ttc once i am back at work so it could work out very well. i only know too well how ttc plans don't always work out though :(. if ttc didn't work out as i hope i could end up being full time for a long time without the extra holidays.

OP posts:
Arisbottle · 08/08/2013 14:56

Another teacher here who is in a management role and therefore will have any flexible work requests denied.

I am pregnant with number five and am considering what to do. I would like to go part time, as we would like baby number six quite soon after. I think I may need to stop working altogether.

NatashaBee · 08/08/2013 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Offler · 08/08/2013 15:09

I have just returned to work after a years maternity leave to discover that I had been re-deployed and who I thought was my maternity cover (which had changed during the time I was on leave) would be continuing in the role. This was all under the guise of a re-organisation (which I wasn't kept informed about!).

None of the other PA's in my direct organisation had been re-deployed, they were still working for their orginal team, plus one of the new managers who had been brought in. Just me moved, me who had been convieniently out of the way while the re-org took place...

I challenged it with the help of my union, and today I have been told I have my job back, working for my original manager!

Now I just need to get the flexible working thing sorted...

Original poster
busterboy · 08/08/2013 15:17

sounds like this is a common problem in teaching. i can understand why employers don't want to do this but it's not fair!! [stamps feet]

i tried my best to get as far in my career as i could before having my baby. i was hoping i could then go part time and still earn a decent wage. didn't really think i wouldn't be able to do it.

OP posts:
Original poster
busterboy · 08/08/2013 15:19

glad you got it sorted offler. i actually got my job now by covering mat leave and staying in the job when the mum came back oops!

fingers crossed with the flexible working request.

OP posts:
myfriendflicka · 08/08/2013 15:31

www.theguardian.com/money/2013/aug/08/workplace-discrimination-pregnant-women-mothers-common

By coincidence, this is in the Guardian today.

If you have no punchbag to hand, don't read the comments - lots from men posting about "but you chose to have children, suck it up" and "faced with people who spend large amounts of time away from their jobs, an employer will understandably choose another candidate", and several others saying women with children "take advantage" and have far too much sick leave.

I always think quite hard about signing in and joining the debate - but the sexist bastards make me so cross I worry i will hunt them down with a shotgun after a few pages of it.

We have a long long long way to go on workplace equality Angry

movingonandup · 08/08/2013 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pigsmummy · 08/08/2013 16:12

I have been told that I can't do my current position as part time or job share too! I have been told that I can try to find a vacancy for my grade at part time hours but there are no part time jobs available. Not one despite the company having tens of thousands of employees.

I have several friends whom have resigned as they couldn't get any changes made to their previous role and I think that companies are standing their ground rather than trying to be flexible. I am sure that you could do your job 4 days a week tbh.

AaDB · 08/08/2013 16:24

Any office job, regardless of grade can be done flexibly or under smart working.

My husband works in a very old fashioned organization, it sounds like a lot of people do. Until recently, all requests for anything other than 9-5, Mon to Fri, were not considered. A recent change in CEO lead to redundancies. As part of this reorganisation, all staff were encouraged to apply for part time hours or flexibility. Staff are finding it strange. I'm all in favor of working patterns that encourage fathers to take a more proactive role in childcare. In my case, I earn more than my DH. This change is very welcome and practical.

At my ds's school, all senior staff are male; 90% of staff are women. Now I know whyAngry

AaDB · 08/08/2013 16:26

I works seek the advice of you're union rep and go through hr. It's a disgrace. Angry Angry Angry

greenfolder · 08/08/2013 16:29

What you are suggesting sounds sensible re using holiday and ttc.I would put in a flexible working request for 4 days per week on principle. If they don't grant it (and it sounds like they are just trying to pay you less my employers tactics until I did as above) I would then say that you will utilise your accrued leave to demonstrate how you can cover in 4 days. I did have to point out quite forcefully that I knew that my work would not be redeployed.they were saving a fifth of my salary, I would be buggered if they were going to pay me less than that!

Arisbottle · 08/08/2013 16:31

Aadb all of our senior staff , apart from me our childless women or men whose partners/ wives are SAHM.

x2boys · 08/08/2013 16:31

the law works in that your place of work have to take your application seriousley the do not have meet your flexible working offers made by you but if they don't thet have to give you a decent/validt reason within two weeks.

Snoopingforsoup · 08/08/2013 16:34

Just seen this and not read everything so Aprils if repeating:

Speak to HR. do not speak to your line manager on this as he/she is clearly not up on what you're entitled to.

Good luck

Lagoonablue · 08/08/2013 16:39

It is irritating but hardly a disgrace as some suggesting. Employer must consider it yes but if they can't accommodate it then they are quite within their rights to say no.

myfriendflicka · 08/08/2013 16:49

Yeah that lovely staus quo (as evidenced by the posters' experiences).

x2boys · 08/08/2013 16:59

but is incredibly stressful i,m a nurse dh works in a warehoues does a week of afteroons week of mornings different days off during the week so I aim [my trust working policy has changed recently in that you do two short day [8 hours] two long days 12 hours so i do my long days on his days off and lates . when he does earlies and vice versa so do a fulltime job over four days instead of five but the amount of times people doing the rota put me bearing in min [they have a request book which i use all the time and a copy of dh,s rota]down for working same shift as dh is unbelievable after I had my oldest son I worked nights for three years nobody minded that, but when I had my second boy its impossble towork nights on lates hubby finishes at 11pm I would start a night shift at 745 no one to have the boys in those three hours and they are only six and three when hubby is on a early he starts at 700am so has leave the house at 630am at the latest I would not finish a night shift untll 745 so again I have no one too look after the boys . My very helpful manager [not] when I explained I cant do nights until the kids were a bit older told me I knew it was shift work when I started working there well yes I did but that was before I had kids [it was 17 yrs ago] I just told them to read there own family friendly hours /stroke flexible working not heard a peep out of them since

Original poster
busterboy · 08/08/2013 17:05

thanks everyone - i wish you were my bosses lol!

if i had a crystal ball and knew my ttc would be sucessful i would do the full time and use holidays as cleverly as i could to maximise time off eg taking a week wed-tue so i got two short weeks. i don't think they would let me book every friday off.

as i dont have the crystal ball i will have to try for flexible working. the holiday thing only works for the first six months as i have so much leave built up.

OP posts:
flowery · 08/08/2013 17:11

For those talking about blanket "flexible working will not be considered for management roles" rules, that's unlawful. Every request must be considered properly and on its own merits.

Original poster
busterboy · 08/08/2013 17:17

i think thats what my manager is trying to say flowery anyone on grade x and above can't be part time. even if it's obvious they could!

OP posts:
AaDB · 08/08/2013 18:07

Aris, effectively your school's policy discriminates against working mothers. That IS a disgrace and demonstrates why there need to be a massive cultural change in attitude. The law should be changed to ensure it is harder for employers to discriminate. I am starting to feel very lucky that my dh and I can BOTH work flexibly. We have no help with childcare outside a before and after school club.

As people have children older, more extended families will be unable to provide help with childcare. There isn't provision to pick up the slack.

You are asking to reduce your salary to reflect a pro rata reduction in your working hours. Your boss is suggesting a double whammy of reducing your pay whilst changing nothing of your workload. Hmm

Original poster
busterboy · 08/08/2013 18:31

I know AaDB cheeky bastards eh!

I won't drop to a lower grade at the moment as I feel like I in a bit of limbo with starting my family at the minute. I know I want one more mat leave so whatever is decided now wouldn't be forever anyway. Maybe once my family is complete I would take whatever is offered could to get the reduced hours - even though I don't think it's right to demote me. I need the extra cash now to help cover my loss of earnings on mat leave.

It's good you and your DH have flexible working arrangements. Maybe if more men did it the attitudes would change for us lowly women lol!!

OP posts:
iwantanafternoonnap · 08/08/2013 18:36

Thank you so much catgirl for listing the reasons employers have to give for refusing flexible working hours. My department couldn't say any of those to me and so I can push forward with my promotion.

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