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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that saying the new childcare proposal discriminates against SAHP is like saying JSA discriminates against the employed?

731 replies

AnnieLobeseder · 06/08/2013 14:46

So I know it's fairly old news, but the new government proposals to help working parents with childcare costs have been popping up on my BBC newsfeed this week.

Now there are plenty of things wrong with these new proposals, such as the "help" only being available for parents with under-5s to start with, and that students don't count as "employed" so if you're both/one of you are students and need childcare while you're at college you get no help at all. At least they're apparently going to count being a carer as "employed" so families where one parent stays home to care, they will get help with childcare.

However, what I don't understand is why these aren't the issues being highlighted, but instead, just people whining that SAHPs will lose out. Erm, please correct me if I'm missing some fundamental point here, but isn't that because SAHPs, by their very nature, don't need childcare!! That's why they stay at home - to look after their own children.

I've seem quotes that this is a "carrot dangled at SAHMs to tempt them back into work". Um, no, who the heck would put themselves into a situation they don't want for the sake of claiming a benefit they don't really need?

So to my mind, it's like complaining that you aren't entitled to JSA because you have a job, and saying that having JSA for those who need it is "dangling a carrot in front of people with jobs to tempt them into unemployment".

AIBU?

OP posts:
ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 08/08/2013 11:05

Retro - if it's so tough then go out to work and have an easy life

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 08/08/2013 11:10

I think part of the trouble is that I am guessing we have pretty much all been on mat leave and therefore been at home for a while. We also all have our kids 2 days a week.

So as a WOHM I feel like I know what I am on about when I say that being a working mum is much harder than being at home with my daughter all day.

If you as a SAHM have not tried working with a child then I don't think you can compare.

But yes, all children are different and I only have one. I also have a fairly senior and high pressure job though. But I know for absolute certain that in my case it would be soooo much easier to be at home!

Wannabestepfordwife · 08/08/2013 11:44

I think being a mum is hardwork and full if guilt am I doing the right thing?- whether your a sahm or wohm neither has the monopoly on tiredness or not having a break.

I don't understand why women feel the need to critise other women so much it just makes it easier and more acceptable to do the same.

Wannabestepfordwife · 08/08/2013 11:45

More acceptable for men to do the same

janey68 · 08/08/2013 11:51

Exactly wanna. In fact it's some of the husbands I feel sorry for, with wives who think they go to work for a rest! Being the sole earner is a huge pressure in itself. If I were a SAHM the last thing I'd be doing is saying the person who facilitated me doing that, was having an easy ride.
At the end of the day, having young children is a hard grind. Those who combine it with paid employment don't somehow magically have it easy.

Wannabestepfordwife · 08/08/2013 11:57

Hate to say I agree with you there janey. I don't feel like I've sacrificed anything I'm privileged to be with dd everyday. My dp has far more pressure working to pay the mortgage and support the 3 of us and I would say at 23 he's the one who's made the sacrifices.

I think the women who do feel like they have sacrificed so much for their husbands don't sound happy in their choices and sound a tad bitter and resentful tbh

soverylucky · 08/08/2013 11:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shitsinger · 08/08/2013 12:04

I have never as a parent felt a moments guilt about WOH.

Society loves to make women as a whole feel guilty whatever they do- SAH/WOH/too big/too thin/too old.

Bollocks to it I say !

janey68 · 08/08/2013 12:07

Well said soverylucky.

ThereMustBeAnotherExplanation · 08/08/2013 13:07

I'm not disputing that sovery. Of course it makes sense to give families like yours some help with insanely high childcare costs for the reasons you outline. What does not make sense is extending that help to families earning up to £300k while at the same time telling sole-earner families on £50k that they are 'too well off' to receive any help. We certainly aren't well off - we can just about absorb the loss of CB through living very frugally and that's OK but it is not OK if that money is then dished out to hugely well off families who just don't need this help. It's not as simple as 'go out to work and earn more money' as I would literally have to work night shifts after doing 14-hour days of childcare by myself. I don't think that is sustainable and many people are in this trap.

janey68 · 08/08/2013 13:12

But it's not that the people on 300k are getting a handout (which is actually what CB is)
They are simply getting to keep an extra £100 which they are paying out in childcare. And a couple on this income are already paying about 8 or 9 k a month tax. I mean seriously, the country loses out far more if people in that situation choose to give up work and stay home.
If they were actually being given an extra bit of dosh I could see your point. But they aren't. They just aren't losing quite as much of their earnings

ThereMustBeAnotherExplanation · 08/08/2013 13:14

Yes janey I know! But the money has to come from somewhere, either we need to make cuts or we don't!

racmun · 08/08/2013 13:26

As a SAHM i don't want or need external childcare, I love being at home in general - I have shitty days but then I used to have shitty days at work. The difference is I can if I want to not get dressed all day cuddle up to ds on the sofa and not worry about it, if I'm feeling ill, I'm not worrying about work.

I think the reasons SAHP feel aggrieved by the policy is that there are no tax breaks at all for single income families, most of whom have probably lost their cb. The 2 policies aren't linked I appreciate that but it's the same group who lose out. If my dh earnt 1/2 what he does now and I got a job earning the other half we would be £600 a month better off through the tax system alone. That isn't fair, regardless of £100 childcare tax break other people are getting.

Add on the loss of cb and that is why SAHP are feeling a bit pissed off with the policies, it does seem that the government doesn't value or believe that you should look after you own children and through successive policies has contrived to ensure that you are almost penalised for doing so. That is not fair.

It probably is seen as a group of SAHP with a high earning partner moaning over £100 a month. However, in the South East even on £100k a year you are NOT rich but it is probably a fairly small group in that situation and the Tories are playing a numbers game for the next election.

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 08/08/2013 13:43

RACmum - If my dh earnt 1/2 what he does now and I got a job earning the other half we would be £600 a month better off through the tax system alone. That isn't fair,

YES IT IS
Presumably this is the personal allowance you are refering to? You have the choice to get that by going out to work. get a job. You have made a choice not to use that allowance by not working.

janey68 · 08/08/2013 13:57

But you wouldn't be £600 better off in reality. I can't imagine there is anywhere in the country you could get childcare As cheap as £600 per month - and that would be for just one child. About £1000 per month per child seems to be the norm

ThereMustBeAnotherExplanation · 08/08/2013 14:01

Agree with that janey. But we all know people who get free childcare from GPs etc, its not as simple as 'working always costs more'. The govt should do something to help all families (earning under whatever level they deem appropriate), bringing up children is expensive however you choose to do it and while there are always going to be people who gain from the system, most people do not. And thinkaboutit FGS read my posts - some of us dont have the choice to just 'go and work'. It's not that simple!

janey68 · 08/08/2013 14:08

I do think the grandparents think is a red herring. I mean, some people get given house deposits from their parents. You can't prevent people choosing to give either their time or money (and I speak as someone who's never received free care, and nor would I be happy anyway with earning a salary and not paying out to whoever is looking after my precious kids. It's a huge responsibility and commitment and personally I think a lot of people take the piss the way they use grandparents. Anyway that's by the by)

Besides, if you aren't paying childcare you can't benefit from the tax break on it so I can't see the gripe there

janey68 · 08/08/2013 14:12

To sum that point up: yes there are some couples out there who both earn and use relatives for childcare and don't pay them. So yes, those couples will get to keep all their earnings (though cannot benefit from a childcare tax break)
But what do you propose we do about it? Punish them because they are being given a freebie by the rellies? Hmm

ThereMustBeAnotherExplanation · 08/08/2013 14:12

Yes, again, I totally agree. What I was trying to point out is yes, SOME SAHP will use their 'free' childcare and CB for frivolous things. SOME WOHP will do the same. It was just one example of how it works both ways...

Wouldn't it be better to allow ALL parents to access tax breaks/ CB (again up to a certain earnings level) and let them decide how to best spend it? Some will take the piss (on both sides) but most genuinely need the help.

ThereMustBeAnotherExplanation · 08/08/2013 14:14

And you're being a bit naive if you think those parents won't use the free childcare - most likely they will use it and then get the GPs or whoever to 'top up' the hours.

janey68 · 08/08/2013 14:20

But the free childcare is available to all parents .
What you're talking about is the Tax break which means that the childcare they are paying to use , costs slightly less.
And yes, some parents may use that and then 'top up' with freebies from rellies. What do you propose be done about that? No point moaning about other people being gifted something

Like I said I know adults whose parents have helped them buy houses, cars etc. Yet you don't hear people complaining and saying the govt should fork out a deposit for the rest of us

amicissimma · 08/08/2013 14:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shitsinger · 08/08/2013 14:22

" I would have to work night shifts after 14 hour days of childcare by myself"
I did.

Plenty of people work nights, evenings and weekends when they have small DC. They have no choice.

ThereMustBeAnotherExplanation · 08/08/2013 14:25

Yes amicissimma. Exactly. And janey I'm going to stop replying now as you seem to be deliberately misunderstading me but I haven't moaned about anyone getting anything. All I've said is it should be done fairly. I'm all for all types of families getting more support if they need it.

ThereMustBeAnotherExplanation · 08/08/2013 14:28

So shitsinger you slept when? If you genuinely did that then obviously anyone would have huge respect for you. BUT. That is why it grates. I have the choice of not sleeping if I want to make more money for my family while the government hands out more money to families who are much better off. That can't be right.