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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that saying the new childcare proposal discriminates against SAHP is like saying JSA discriminates against the employed?

731 replies

AnnieLobeseder · 06/08/2013 14:46

So I know it's fairly old news, but the new government proposals to help working parents with childcare costs have been popping up on my BBC newsfeed this week.

Now there are plenty of things wrong with these new proposals, such as the "help" only being available for parents with under-5s to start with, and that students don't count as "employed" so if you're both/one of you are students and need childcare while you're at college you get no help at all. At least they're apparently going to count being a carer as "employed" so families where one parent stays home to care, they will get help with childcare.

However, what I don't understand is why these aren't the issues being highlighted, but instead, just people whining that SAHPs will lose out. Erm, please correct me if I'm missing some fundamental point here, but isn't that because SAHPs, by their very nature, don't need childcare!! That's why they stay at home - to look after their own children.

I've seem quotes that this is a "carrot dangled at SAHMs to tempt them back into work". Um, no, who the heck would put themselves into a situation they don't want for the sake of claiming a benefit they don't really need?

So to my mind, it's like complaining that you aren't entitled to JSA because you have a job, and saying that having JSA for those who need it is "dangling a carrot in front of people with jobs to tempt them into unemployment".

AIBU?

OP posts:
Mummyoftheyear · 08/08/2013 06:25

I work part time. I imagine, however, that SAHMs and their children would benefit from a few hours of childcare I'm a nursery setting for a number of reasons - not to mention that staying at home full time is sometimes a choice but often not and always hard work! I also think that the children of SAHMs would lose out if their parents were neither able to afford/ be granted a number of free hours in a nursery setting.

FrancesDeLaTourCoughngIntoABin · 08/08/2013 07:17

But working is hard work. WOHPs don't take their children to childcare and then put their feet up!

Retropear · 08/08/2013 07:39

I wouldn't touch a nursery setting with a barge pole but pre- school is a whole different matter.

peteypiranha · 08/08/2013 07:42

I do think its a bit ridiculous needing the government to pay for a break whilst working parents use their childcare to work and do all a sahm does on top.

I do think though that the less you do the harder it gets as you arent used to doing so much so get tired easier.

janey68 · 08/08/2013 07:43

Free hours are available to all 3 years olds. So the children of SAHP can get time at nursery.
(I agree about the break issue btw. As a part time working mum when my children were little, we could only afford nursery for the hours we both worked. Actually I tell a lie- because we had to pay for nursery 51 weeks of the year, there were one or two occasions when I sent them when I was on annual leave. But my usual nursery drop offs were 7.45 am followed by a quick dash to the office- certainly no relaxing break)

Retropear · 08/08/2013 07:47

Did anybody see the How to be a German prog?

I thought they had it pretty sussed.

Strong economy,low debt(people are frugal),more quality renting for longer so families not saddled with mortgages or debt, people work harder but shorter hours and families with a sahp get tax breaks and benefit.Childcare was £25 a week!Kids don't start school until 6 and then it's outdoors with 2 pms off.More family time.

Families have a choice.Not enough women in high positions but I got the impression that was German attitude and could be rectified here.

Basically I thought our country looked tragic in comparison.

solveproblem · 08/08/2013 07:56

Retropear: I watched and although life seemed great with shorter hours and all that, it was really sad hearing them referring to working mothers as "raven mothers" and hardly any women on board level! That's not really what we want, is it?

peteypiranha · 08/08/2013 08:00

I think in the future childcare provision will be expanded and then nearly every mum will work. I am hoping that happens by the time my dds are adults.

Retropear · 08/08/2013 08:02

As I said there were German attitudes that could be rectified here.

Basically families had a choice.Many,many families would like a sahp here and tbh their lifestyle.It clearly is possible.

I think our over reliance on debt,home ownership and greedy landlords in this country is taking choice away- alongside this God awful government.

janey68 · 08/08/2013 08:03

Agree solveproblem.

There are pros and cons to any country's system. There may be much to Applaud about the German way of life, but their attitudes towards women in the workplace are shocking. There seems to be a deeply ingrained prejudice against working mothers.

solveproblem · 08/08/2013 08:04

Personally I think the government should try to make more men SAH, at least part time. Children need their fathers just as much as they need their mothers.

Ideally work/home life should be shared equally between parents, until the. Women will get discriminated against in the workplace and we end up in a situation where the father works all hours of the day to enable the mother to stay at home.

And about not touching a nursery with a bare pole, my DS's nursery is amazing and I adore the staff working there. They are truly amazing and care for my son sooo well.

Retropear · 08/08/2013 08:04

I don't Pety.

I'd like my dd to have a choice.Most women want a choice and want to enable a parent to spend sometime at home with their dc.

solveproblem · 08/08/2013 08:05

I agree with you there retropear, rent and such need o be made more affordable to give people a real choice.

Retropear · 08/08/2013 08:06

I know several sahd near us(bil for one who shares it with dsis).

peteypiranha · 08/08/2013 08:11

I want childcare provision to be expanded like scandanvian countries, but realise it might never be that good.

janey68 · 08/08/2013 08:11

YY solveproblem .

That is how DH and I have tried to achieve- a really good balance. It seems very natural to us, because we both feel equal in terms of capabilities and skills etc. I can go to work and earn pretty similar to him, and I have the requisite skills for the workplace. Likewise, he can look after children , run a house and cook as well as I can. And we both wanted children- and the central point you make is so true: to the child , both parents are equally important

We haven't managed to achieve total equality. I was the one who dropped to 3 days a week until the kids started school, while DH worked full time. But then this was back in the day when he didn't even get paternity leave. At least now, there is much more possibility for couples to have a more equal set up- but I agree, it needs families to grasp these opportunities. I will be very interested to see how many families use transferable leave ... Will mums take off 6 months and then dad take 6? Or will some mums feel reluctant to 'let' the dad have that responsibility, or will dads be reluctant to take it? It remains to be seen, but it's something I would have given my right arm for.

Retropear · 08/08/2013 08:12

Interestingly Solve they are overpaying their mortgage,very frugal and kind of live the German way although dsis is the main breadwinner,hotshot career woman successful in her field.She has reduced her week by a day,they both have,bil by 2 days.

I tell you getting rid of an over reliance on debt and sorting out housing would give us all waaaaay more choice and I suspect make us happier. Even the way they do their shopping was interesting,finally understood their love affair with Lidl.

Retropear · 08/08/2013 08:14

Petey people are questioning the Scndinavian model and there doesn't seem to be much choice there either.

peteypiranha · 08/08/2013 08:18

We are having so many people coming in to our nursery wanting their child to start and just wishing they had a job. I think there are 1000s of mums out there dying to work but cant.

Retropear · 08/08/2013 08:25

There are equally 1000s of mums working who wish they could be with their dc.

Clearly it is perfectly possible to let families make their own choice.

Original poster
AnnieLobeseder · 08/08/2013 08:26

Peter, we've managed to avoid any out-and-out SAHP-bashing thus far and managed to have a very civilised conversation. Please don't ruin that now.

OP posts:
peteypiranha · 08/08/2013 08:29

How am I bashing sahms? I think that a lot of people are waiting for universal credit so they can work any hours and recieve childcare. I think that policy has got a lot of support from people I speak to as its going to make it much easier for mums to work and access childcare.

I think the one thing that they desperately need to sort out is a lot more support for middle income earners so that they can carry on their careers.

solveproblem · 08/08/2013 08:36

I've got first hand experience of the Scandinavian system.

If people can afford to live on one income they can, and bearing in mind housing is a lot more affordable it is much more viable to do so.

If people can't afford to live on one income they an access affordable childcare that doesn't wipe out an entire income.

I was a student when I was there so got full time childcare for free, which I think is great.

peteypiranha · 08/08/2013 08:39

Sounds brilliant solveproblem. Would do anything for that to come over here by the time my children grow up. You wouldnt have any of the worry of if you make more money will it cancel out childcare help.

solveproblem · 08/08/2013 08:42

Can I also add that you et two years worth of parental leave which you can spread out over the first twelve years of the children's life. A third of which is the mothers, a third of which is the fathers and a third which can be split between the parents as they wish. (We didn't get this as our children are both not in the UK, but still!)

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