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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that saying the new childcare proposal discriminates against SAHP is like saying JSA discriminates against the employed?

731 replies

AnnieLobeseder · 06/08/2013 14:46

So I know it's fairly old news, but the new government proposals to help working parents with childcare costs have been popping up on my BBC newsfeed this week.

Now there are plenty of things wrong with these new proposals, such as the "help" only being available for parents with under-5s to start with, and that students don't count as "employed" so if you're both/one of you are students and need childcare while you're at college you get no help at all. At least they're apparently going to count being a carer as "employed" so families where one parent stays home to care, they will get help with childcare.

However, what I don't understand is why these aren't the issues being highlighted, but instead, just people whining that SAHPs will lose out. Erm, please correct me if I'm missing some fundamental point here, but isn't that because SAHPs, by their very nature, don't need childcare!! That's why they stay at home - to look after their own children.

I've seem quotes that this is a "carrot dangled at SAHMs to tempt them back into work". Um, no, who the heck would put themselves into a situation they don't want for the sake of claiming a benefit they don't really need?

So to my mind, it's like complaining that you aren't entitled to JSA because you have a job, and saying that having JSA for those who need it is "dangling a carrot in front of people with jobs to tempt them into unemployment".

AIBU?

OP posts:
janey68 · 07/08/2013 14:03

Oh for goodness sake, you're the one saying those things about SAHM not anyone else. No one is saying you're a lazy good for nothing if you're a SAHM. We're simply saying its a choice, it's not better than going out to work (and also raising your children btw) neither is it worse.
It's one way of doing it, that's all.

To go back to the OP, this is about enabling parents who pay childcare costs to not have to pay quite as much. It's not giving them any extra, or some huge advantage, it's just keeping those horrendous costs a bit lower. It doesn't affect someone who isn't working at all.

The OP made a comparison with JSA... To me it's disability benefits which springs to mind.. It's rather like me as an able bodied person begrudging the disability allowance which some people get. Like I'm envious of them needing it. I mean, come on...

Retropear · 07/08/2013 14:03

Happy errr and being a sahm means you shouldn't and can't have a job later because..........

Staying at home for a while is the best thing for many children and families. Most families don't have the Xenia experience with 2 working parents,far from it.

You know what the needs of children are never factored into these discussions and it stinks.

motownmover · 07/08/2013 14:04

"I dont see why SAHPs want valuing by society, its of no benefit to society to not pay tax or claim benefits as many do."

OMG OMG as Jonnie Mac says you can't be serious.

Women who are unpaid do most of the productive work in this world - FACT!

You need to read more Mummyofone

BrokenSunglasses · 07/08/2013 14:06

It's not a big want Retro, but it's not got any value to anyone except your own family. Why do you feel the need to be valued by people who you don't really have any value to?

In my experience, SAHPs do have a value to society for other, unpaid things that they often do, like running PTA events, toddler groups, breastfeeding support groups or any other voluntary thing they do. But then they get validated and appreciated by the people/organisations/schools that they are helping.

tedmundo · 07/08/2013 14:07

My eyebrows are in my hairline at this thread.

There seems to be a thinly veiled contempt for sah parenting being expressed on here. Only contributing to their own families, not paying taxes, having the audacity to, you know, use public services!

If that was said about full benefit claimants on here, you would (quite rightly) get a roasting.

This should not be a battle of who is the most righteous. I think we are all trying to do the best we can with the hand we are dealt. As with all policies, there are winners and losers. Hopefully the government can cobble something from this that benefits the majority who need it, in as fair a way as possible.

janey68 · 07/08/2013 14:08

Who says having one parent at home is best for many families? It's a decision you can only make about your OWN family.

Rinoachicken · 07/08/2013 14:09

retro you're wasting your breath I'm afraid, I asked happymummy the same question a couple of pages back and she didn't reply to me either.

motownmover · 07/08/2013 14:10

You live in a remarkable bubble Janey and Happy - good for you.

Let's hope some real life doesn't come your way so you can keep making those wonderful smug choices!

Shitsinger · 07/08/2013 14:12

House prices didn't rise because women went out to work .

They rose due to the economic growth in the 1980s,demand for housing, lack of housing( caused by increased health and longevity, changes in social practices( wanting to own a property), increasing birth rates )
Changes in lending practices(to those with poor credit ratings and increasing LTV rates) and the buy to let industry ( often fuelled by the pensions of those long lived pensioners) contributed as well.
Never mind lets blame women instead eh ? Hmm

janey68 · 07/08/2013 14:13

Don't talk to me about the real world - I live and work in it. It's bloody hard raising children well and working while doing it, and if other people can benefit from those childcare costs being a tad more affordable then bloody fantastic.

Viviennemary · 07/08/2013 14:13

I'm usually in the middle with the SAHM v WOHM. But honestly I am losing sympathy with the SAHM's and their whining.

BrokenSunglasses · 07/08/2013 14:13

Women who are unpaid do most of the productive work in this world - FACT!

Really?

Do you have a link that supports that FACT in the UK Motown?

I don't think I contributed to that when I was a SAHM unfortunately, even with the voluntary work I did, because I do the same now that I'm in paid employment anyway.

janey68 · 07/08/2013 14:14

Seems to me if anyone is living in a bubble it's the SAHP who don't want to work (because if they did, they'd benefit from the proposed tax breaks) but also don't want WOHP to benefit from them either.

Talk about dog in the manger..!

motownmover · 07/08/2013 14:19

SAHP do actually work it just isn't accounted for in the male dominated economic measures! Oh FFS working is not always just a simple choice JAney if you have children you need to arrange affordable childcare which is not easy even with a 1200 kickback!

www.unpac.ca/economy/unpaidwork.html

Women do the majority of the productive work in the world.

I honestly find it funny that women would dispute this.

Do some reading up on GDP and what is doesn't count!

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 07/08/2013 14:21

SAHP who don't want to work (because if they did, they'd benefit from the proposed tax breaks) but also don't want WOHP to benefit from them either.

This is the bit I am finding very weird.

Using the lack of affordable childcare is a barrier to working argument - i.e. that's why they stay at home but simultaneously saying that they think this is a bad idea

HappyMummyOfOne · 07/08/2013 14:22

Agree Janey, people make the decision for their own family and its a personal choice. Having one parent home isnt always the best, especially if the other partner isnt a high earner meaning the child grows up in a low income household where opportunities may be limited. Not every parent, working or not, is a great one and some children may need other adults in their lives.

As for "women who are unpaid do the most productive work in this world" mmm very subjective. Given the amount of SAHPs on here who expect their partners to do the houswork when they get home as they claim "they are at home to care for children not do the housework" its not always the case. Some may cook, clean, volunteer and care for children just like many WOHPs.

Motown, i dont live in a bubble at all. Are you suggesting WOHPs live in a bubble? Does that apply to the spouses of the SAHPs?

Rinoachicken · 07/08/2013 14:23

if you have children you need to arrange affordable childcare

agree motown, and this is impossible to do if you are only on a single income but the SAHP is trying to return to work.

I said it earlier but I'll say it again:

You can't arrange the childcare without the income
You can't get regain the second income without the childcare

Catch 22

janey68 · 07/08/2013 14:23

Brokensunglasses- I agree, it's bizarre isn't it?
I was at home on two maternity leaves, and I also worked a 3 day week while my children were pre schoolers. All very enjoyable and worthwhile; but I fail to see what I was contributing then, that I don't also contribute now, alongside working full time.

racmun · 07/08/2013 14:25

Omg this is going round in circles.

SAHP don't need childcare, therefore don't need £100 a month tax break towards it. Tbh does £100 actually make that much difference to an individual family- not really. As a country though this policy will cost billions which as a whole we probably can't afford. It is just the Tories trying to win votes. I vote Tory and I'm a SAHM.

However the tax system needs to be fairer and allow the SAHP to transfer their personal allowance to the working parent.

mrslyman · 07/08/2013 14:25

motownmover I don't understand why you are so against this tax break? If you want women to be more valued and have a stronger economic position then a tax break which provides a greater choice for staying economically active is surely a good thing?

mrslyman · 07/08/2013 14:26

rinoachicken but once you start working you qualify for this tax break? So I don't really understand your point.

janey68 · 07/08/2013 14:27

Rino- 'twas ever thus... Childcare always has to be paid upfront before income received. I still don't get why someone who isn't working begrudges someone who is, getting some childcare help. Btw I am all for one off payments to cover childcare for interviews to enable women to get back into the workplace, and loans to cover the initial months childcare payment.
But providing childcare for people who are choosing to be SAHP? Ludicrous

ihategeorgeosborne · 07/08/2013 14:27

janey and Happy always seem to be the most ardent SAHM bashers on all of these threads. Chips on shoulders me thinks Hmm

BrokenSunglasses · 07/08/2013 14:29

Have had a brief look on the page you linked to, but I'm finding I can't really take it seriously as it lists work as only what takes place between 9am and 5pm, and features 'Cathy', whose unpaid work is almost identical to what a WOHP would do in a day, and includes talking to door to door salesmen.

It's really quite funny!

Rinoachicken · 07/08/2013 14:29

mrslynn because childcare fees are paid in advance. If you are in the situation where a single income is no longer sufficient and so the SAHP is trying to return to work, it's very unlikely you'll have a months or terms worth of full time childcare fees just lying around