What exactly is the advantage of circumcision and why is their such insistence?

[FrigginRexManningDay]

I was watching 'What to expect when you're expecting' last night and one of the male characters was insisting on circumcision for his unborn son,which turned out to be a girl.

One of the reasons he agreed with was making the penis less sensitive. I don't understand the reasons behind it. AFAIK its not healthier or cleaner. I understand it being done for medical reasons of course,but it just seems unnecessary to be so routine in America.

[MaryKatharine]

Absolutely! Like slavery and drilling holes in the head to relief minor headaches and burning women as witches if they didn't conform to society's expectations.

[aufaniae]

The reason there is such insistence is that it has become the cultural norm, and as humans we tend to self-police around cultural norms (we might openly disapprove of people who eat while shopping for example, or who pick their noses while talking to you).

And let's face it, if you've already cut off a but of your child's bod (or had it done to you) you've got a pretty heavy investment in that being the right choice! People are not keen on accepting that they were conned into chopping off bits of their babies simply to make money for shareholders! Much more comfortable to believe it was a good, positive health-giving favour they did for their child.

[aufaniae]

*that should have said "a bit of your child's body"!

[aufaniae]

Great examples MaryKatharine

[Mia4]

I'm a little confused why a man would want his son to have a less sensitive penis? Unless he has a problem himself with premature ejaculation that he wants to make sure his son is fine? Genuinely confused.

My cousin is circumcised, he doesn't really feel that much different to when he wasn't. His was when he was 16, he got a bad infection and ended up ripping a bit so they gave him the op. Seeing him walking around in so much pain after, I can understand why people who insist on it for their religion don't like the idea of waiting until their older because they worry about that aspect but on the other hand my cousin's was under anaesthetic and with tremadol so i can't imagine how much pain a baby would be in without that, despite them not remembering it.

[TheAccidentalExhibitionist]

I understand one of the most common cause of medical circumcision in Europe is because of Phimosis, a narrowing of the foreskin at the tip so it can't be retracted.
Even with Phimosis now there is no need to circumsize.

Yesterday my son had a postoplasty because of Phimosis where the foreskin was cut and restitched to allow it to retract. It was far simpler than circumcision and far less painful. We are both delighted that he didn't have to go through a circumcision, it's bad enough as it is.

Surgery on the penis is not to be taken lightly and as far as I can see is not done here for religious reasons.

I know this is slightly off thread but just wanted to explain that now there are choices of surgery even if medical reasons are involved.

[foreverondiet]

Ear piercing not against judiasm - allowed for women not allowed for jewish men. Tattooing is not allowed in Judiasm at all.

[MaryKatharine]

I think if those newborn babies had a voice and were lying there bound and restrained begging their parents to stop and to please end the excruciating pain they were putting them through then many parents would think twice. If that baby could then get up, still in agony, and look their parents in the eye and ask, 'why did you just do that to me?' There would be many more second thoughts.
But because a newborn cannot articulate all the above and a cry is a cry is a cry, then everything is apparently dandy!

[Primafacie]

OP, you say "AFAIK it is not healthier or cleaner". I'm not sure what scientific evidence or personal knowledge you have on this topic, but there is an overwhelming body of evidence that shows it to be healthier. The AAP's policy statement, published last year, following a comprehensive meta-review of all English-language peer-reviewed studies published in the previous 15 years, concludes that the benefits outweigh the risks. Policy Statement

As mentioned above, the WHO also endorses circumcision in the fight against AIDS in Africa.

Before hordes of posters reply that this is all a big conspiracy, and that evil American doctors are only doing this for the money, please also read the Johns Hopskins health economists study, which suggests that not circumcising is actually much more of a drain on health care resources, and that falling circumcision rates will result in very significant avoidable health care costs. [[http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/declining_rates_of_us_infant_male_circumcision_could_add_billions_to_health_care_costs_experts_warn Johns Hopkins]

[YoniBottsBumgina]

And many of them don't cry during the procedure because the reaction to extreme shock is not to cry but silence and often to fall asleep as an extreme defence mechanism - the body is literally shutting down, like an adult fainting. Yet this is taken as a sign that the baby is perfectly happy and relaxed during the procedure.

[ifyourehoppyandyouknowit]

Those costs are coming from the increased spread of STIs. You could bring costs down with comprehensive sex education that encouraged use of condoms and sexual fidelity.

I would rather teach my son to be responsible for his sexual health and to always use condoms, than rely on circumcision.

[Primafacie]

link fail - Johns Hopkins

As ever on these threads, there seems to be a complete disconnect between the reality of circumcision, as performed in the western world, and its perception by those who have no experience of it. The reality is that there is plenty of scientific support to back up parents' decision to have it done, and it performed quickly and easily, under local anaesthesia.

Worldwide, one man in three is circumcised. Get over it. Unless you think one in three mothers and fathers are barbaric/vile/bad persons/mutilators? That makes for a whole lot of barbarians out there.

[MaryKatharine]

But prima, that all only applies because of slapdash hygiene. My DH washes in and around his foreskin thoroughly morning and then again at night. He has taught ds1 the importance of this also. Those germs associated with foreskin and not soap resistant.
What it's all saying is that foreskin risk would be negligible if men ensured they washed thoroughly but as they don't, having one increases all sorts nasties. That, IMO, is not a valid reason for circumcision. Teaching your son that hygiene is vital is a far better way.

[ifyourehoppyandyouknowit]

^Although health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine
circumcision for all male newborns^

That would be the key phrase in the policy statement.

[FrigginRexManningDay]

Teaching my ds how to wash properly and to use condoms would be much better than cutting off parts of his body IMO.

[eddiemairswife]

There was a study some years ago that showed women whose partners were circumcised had a lower risk of developing cervical cancer.

[ifyourehoppyandyouknowit]

Because of the lower rates of HPV infection in circumcised men. Something which could be achieved just as well by people having safe, responsible, protected sex.

[DuelingFanjo]

it seems to be rife in America which is really sad, and they seem to think it means you won't get HIV which is utterly ridiculous.

[FrigginRexManningDay]

That would probably be to do with certain strains of HPV which vaccine/condoms would help prevent.

[MaryKatharine]

Eddiemairswife, washing thoroughly and practicing safe sex would also help prevent the hpv virus.

[DuelingFanjo]

"My DH washes in and around his foreskin thoroughly morning and then again at night. He has taught ds1 the importance of this also. "

I honestly don't think there is any reason for anyone to pay particular attention to the foreskin when washing. This is another thing I have seen Americans say a lot. It's all so strange.

They actually believe that European men have loads of penis problems because they are uncircumcised but the truth is that here in the UK men do very well without having to mutilate their genitals.

Would be interesting to know which posters on here are American!

[MaryKatharine]

Sorry, lots of xposts there with others saying the same.

[FrigginRexManningDay]

HIV has been around for decades and the same safe sex message for most of that time,how can someone be so arrogantly ignorant to think lack of a foreskin is a preventative measure in a developed country like America?

[MaryKatharine]

DF, he had an infection as a teenager which was very smelly and unpleasant so he is very particular. He only ever uses water and teaches DS to do the same. Likewise, I teach the girls to clean their vaginas with water too. My understanding is that cleaning with water merely freshens rather than disturbs the ph. I would think it's the same with the foreskin.

[ifyourehoppyandyouknowit]

Foreskin is kinda self cleaning, no, I mean give the whole area a bit of a lather, rinse (repeat?) in the shower/bath, but you don't need to be going at it with a nail brush.