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Original poster

What exactly is the advantage of circumcision and why is their such insistence?

662 replies

FrigginRexManningDay · 06/08/2013 09:35

I was watching 'What to expect when you're expecting' last night and one of the male characters was insisting on circumcision for his unborn son,which turned out to be a girl.

One of the reasons he agreed with was making the penis less sensitive. I don't understand the reasons behind it. AFAIK its not healthier or cleaner. I understand it being done for medical reasons of course,but it just seems unnecessary to be so routine in America.

OP posts:
curlew · 07/08/2013 10:49

"There is a huge body of evidence that removing it is both safe and has benefits. "

Performed properly of course it's safe. It's minor, if painful, surgery. Minor surgery is very safe indeed. The benefits thing is a very grey area. There are no benefits, as far as I am aware, which are not also conferred by proper hygiene and condom use.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 07/08/2013 10:57

A one in five hundred risk of complications doesn't really feel all that safe. Esp when you consider the liklihood of a man needing a circumcision when he's an adult.

In the UK its not common to be circumcised and yet the men aren't dropping like flies, crippled with UTIs and the clap. We just teach our boys to wash their knobs and have sex responsibly. Somehow we've all survived the plague of foreskin that others seem to find so repulsive. I'm sick of this attitude that the body is this disgusting thing that needs sanitising and altering to make it more appealing.

katieAashley · 07/08/2013 11:02

Yes it "can" reduce the risk of the HPV, although so dose the HPV vaccine for girls which I think we should be more bothered about promoting and so dose practising safe sex, I have only ever slept with circumcised men yet unfortunately have had HPV and have had abnormal cells removed so I guess circumcision isn't that effective after all, also my husband is circumcised and says to me yes it dose reduce sensitivity and he is strongly apposed to our baby boy having it done.

TedMoseby · 07/08/2013 11:21

My exP had been circumcised as an adult for medical reasons. He said his penis was much less sensitive now and wished he hadn't had to have it done.

curlew · 07/08/2013 11:26

Basically there is no good medical reason to circumcise a healthy baby boy.

And as there is no good reason apart from medical ones to perform surgery on a person unable to consent, infant circumcision should be banned.

sashh · 07/08/2013 13:44

OP - You are right it is odd that circumcision still persists in the US as cultural norm. I find it astounding actually.

I don't, because there is a bill to be paid.

How many American woman have a uterus over the age of 60? And how many of those don't have health insurance?

Lowry · 07/08/2013 15:01

When circumcision is performed as part of religious practice / tradition I'd be suprised if the majority of men concerned expressed any regret.

(all male members of my family have been circumcised, including my 4 DS's, not an easy decision but made easier by my DH, DF, DB etc all confirming that they had no negative feelings about the process)

I know that this is a very contentious issue and can understand the opinions expressed on this thread.

SamG76 · 07/08/2013 15:25

Lowry - thanks for your honest post. I must say that I found each brit difficult, as all parents do, but I'm delighted we did it, and particularly that we did it at home surrounded by the family. No-one says that there's no pain at all, although my DS's were far more upset about their vaccinations than the brit. The order of the service acknowledges that it's not really a celebratory occasion....

Lowry · 07/08/2013 15:41

SamG76 For me the first brit was terrifying and the guilt i felt was all consuming.

At the seudat mitzvah i could hardly speak to anyone and found no joy in celebration.

All my boys have been through this now and it got progressively easier for me.

Did you have alot of family pressure or did you just accept the situation?

SamG76 · 07/08/2013 15:56

Lowry - we're quite observant and were always going to do it, so family pressure didn't come into it. If we'd said we wouldn't we would have got the third degree from our parents, of course, but we'd also have had to leave our shul and change schools.

Both DS's jaundiced, so britot on Sunday of sukkot, so people just came, had a bagel and then left. I couldn't have coped with a 400 guest sit-down brunch in shul.

Lowry · 07/08/2013 16:00

I'm guessing you're Orthodox, no ?

I'm overseas and live in an area where we are very much in the minority.

We're (lapsed) Reform and would have had no problems (i presume) had we not gone ahead with the whole shebang.

Seems very OTT to be forced to change schools etc especially if you observe all other religious practices.

curlew · 07/08/2013 16:30

"All my boys have been through this now and it got progressively easier for me."

Sad
SamG76 · 07/08/2013 16:30

When I say change schools, I meant that we wouldn't have got in in the first place. We're middle of the road orthodox, as is the school. I doubt if it has a policy on that specific point, only because I can't imagine anyone would try to send a child there without a brit. I've got family at less orthodox schools, and the position seems to be the same there.

We are in the "ghetto" as you correctly surmise, but having been brought up outside a traditional Jewish area, and having spent a lot of time abroad, I have a lot of respect for those who "fly the flag" in more difficult circumstances.

Sallyingforth · 07/08/2013 16:40

Yes curlew I was thinking the same.

breatheslowly · 07/08/2013 16:51

I'm amazed that people really want to be in a "club" that has cutting bits off your infant child as an entry requirement.

Lowry · 07/08/2013 16:53

Words on a screen can be terribly misinterpreted......it did get easier for me, i kind of got my head around accepting it.

I'm not condoning or condemming my reactions or actions.

This thread has made me think hard about what our community does on a daily basis.

I'm not proud for "mutilating" my sons nor am I ashamed.

My sons appear to be ok with the situation and certainly don't hold what we did against us.

I am soon to be a Grandmother. My DS 1's partner is Catholic. I am somewhat relieved that the question of circumcision is not one that my DIL will have to face.

( ps. we love our kids just as much as you do)

SamG76 · 07/08/2013 17:13

breathe slowly - I'm pleased that you've learned something. I was astonished on a trip to Kenya to learn that the Masai have initiation ceremonies involving drinking lions' blood, but it seems they do. Maybe if I'd told them that I was surprised about it, they'd've given it up and replaced it with a round of Pimms down the local pub.

Lowry · 07/08/2013 17:23

SamG76 Ooh, I'd sell my children to the local shamen and chop off DH's head for a Pimms right now. Wine

curlew · 07/08/2013 18:29

Many cultures and tribes have initiation ceremonies. I am happy to stand up against any that involve surgical procedures on people too young to consent.

Lowry · 07/08/2013 18:52

curlew I know of no Jewish man who is unhappy with the "procedure".

Why did all male members of my extended family willingly participate in my DS's bris if they had been so scarred themselves?

I think we need to agree to disagree.

This is a question of religious practice and those who hold no religious beliefs could never comprehend such a deep seated tradition.

There is no middle ground on this and that i understand.

(I am torn myself but religion, tradition and heritage won me over)

BookFairy · 07/08/2013 18:58

If they don't know any different surely they would have no reason to be unhappy?

Impossible for me to understand, really.

Lowry · 07/08/2013 19:03

BookFairyIf they don't know any different surely they would have no reason to be unhappy?

There's your answer!

mrsravelstein · 07/08/2013 19:07

lowry "( ps. we love our kids just as much as you do)"

i wouldn't suggest for a moment that you don't. my mother had my brother circumcised because it was entirely the norm for her for religious & cultural reasons. she is not an evil person and she loves her children (and we love her).

but i still believe that the act (not necessarily the person) is a "barbaric mutilation".

my mother was horrified that i didn't circumcise my own sons because to her it made them 'abnormal'. over the years though i believe she has come to see it from my perspective. she has seen that actually my 12 year old and 5 year old do have not hygiene problems or health problems as a result of not being circumcised. i would like to think that if she was making the decision now, she might make a different choice... not least because my brother finds it horrific and has actually never really been able to forgive her for having made the decision to permanently alter his genitalia.

BookFairy · 07/08/2013 19:07

But does that make it right?

My ex is circumsised and I do believe it effected him wrt DTD.

It's so contentious, I'm backing right out!

Lowry · 07/08/2013 19:12

mrsravelstein It's not for hygiene reasons.

God commanded the Biblical patriarch Abraham to be circumcised, an act to be followed by his descendants:
10 This is My covenant, which ye shall keep, between Me and you and thy seed after thee: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt Me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male throughout your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any foreigner, that is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken My covenant.