What exactly is the advantage of circumcision and why is their such insistence?

[FrigginRexManningDay]

I was watching 'What to expect when you're expecting' last night and one of the male characters was insisting on circumcision for his unborn son,which turned out to be a girl.

One of the reasons he agreed with was making the penis less sensitive. I don't understand the reasons behind it. AFAIK its not healthier or cleaner. I understand it being done for medical reasons of course,but it just seems unnecessary to be so routine in America.

I don't know who you think 'my community' is Fellatio? I'm not Jewish, or Muslim (or American!). In fact I am a very vocal atheist, and a Brit (with dual citizenship). . But I have lots of Jewish, Muslim and American friends, none of whom, I can safely report, are evil :).

As has been said upthread, infant circumcision is infinitely simpler than adult circumcision and much less likely to lead to complications.

The ridiculous analogies are getting pretty tedious.

X post Norma!

Oh ok, fair enough - you made reference to Jews and you seem pro-circ so I assumed you were Jewish. I categorically did not say that any individual people of any race or creed were evil. In fact I said they were not evil. I prefer to think of it as blinkered, sheep-like and deeply outdated/misguided.

it's a piece of skin...indeed....but whose skin is it Norma? Yours to do with as you please? Or your sons to do with as he pleases?

That is worse than the pain...the risk of a botch ...the risk of infection...

The idea that you think your babies body is yours to alter is the big fat fucking problem I have with the whole thing.

It is NOT your skin...so why not leave it alone?

There was a thread on here a couple of years ago discussing the little known practice of getting your daughters legs waxed at 9yrs. Apparently, waxing repeatedly for 1yr that young means there is a good chance their legs would emerge from puberty hair free.
Would I do it? No way! Would DD's 16yr old self wish I had done? Possibly.
But her body does not belong to me and she needs to be old enough to make such decisions for herself even if that does mean 'missing the window of opportunity.'

No offence taken.

"Payot are worn by some men and boys in the Orthodox Jewish community based on an interpretation of the Biblical injunction against shaving the "corners" of one's head." But my point was lots of men used to do this...now only the proper hardliners do. why would circumcision not go the same way?

Quite the opposite - 50 years ago, peyot would have been almost unheard of in the UK and even the US. Now it's filtering down even to the right-wing modern orthodox. There is an issue of polarization in the community, which is producing challenges for everyone, but suggesting that the brit will die out anytime soon is is wishful thinking on your part....

it's a piece of skin...indeed....but whose skin is it Norma? Yours to do with as you please? Or your sons to do with as he pleases?

Is there any chance I am going to get an answer to this from any of Norma, sam, apple, or prima?

WHOSE SKIN IS IT? what makes you think you own your babies body?

I was thinking longer term than the current anti-rationalism fad Sam

go back 1000 years and what fraction of men looked like todays hardliners?

"shaving the corners of ones head" ...that is really going to stick with me for a while....

We believe we are doing the absolute best by our children, I am talking for my family and friends, having just had my third miscarriage I suspect I am a little too delicate for this thread at the moment, Thanks for the haranguing though ICBINEG

I am sorry for your losses Norma.

Thanks FrauMoose

Icbineg, you really need to take a couple of deep breaths, you are coming across as quit het up by something which really doesn't concern you. No one is putting a gun to your head to have your sons circumcised. But you seem really hung up on the thinking that it is wrong for parents to make that decision for their sons.

I hate to break the news to you, but as parents, we make decisions for our children, some of which have long lasting or permanent impact, on a daily basis. The way we feed our kids, the way we educate them, the values we transmit, how we shield them from health and social risks, all of these have an infinitely more significant impact on our kids' lives than the decision to circumcise. This doesn't mean we are treating children as property: it just means we are, well, parenting them.

You are right it's not relevent to the thread, however, it is always good to be mindful that you are talking to other human beings and there is a way to approach it, doesn't need ti be antagnostic and goading to get your point accross articulately

Apologies for typo's Ipad, don't know why Mary's post was deleted

Why was my post deleted? I didn't say anything I haven't said earlier in the thread and that hasn't been backed up by other posters.
As you have read it Norma, I'm sure you can see that I was sympathetic to your MCs having been there myself but I still believe circumcision is cruel and barbaric.

If the medical advantages of circumcision were really significant enough to make it worth having, I think it would be available free of charge on the NHS and all parents would be given at least the choice to have it done. So it appears that in the UK the medical advantages of non-medically indicated circumcisions are not significant.

I would have more sympathy for the religious/cultural argument if the parents had a bit cut off without adequate pain relief at the same time as their infant son did.

Indeed. I do genuinely thing it's best to stay away from threads such as this when you have other issues going on.
My mother was killed by a drunk driver and I get very stressed when I read threads where the OP and others are whinging about their mother either interfering or not helping them out 24/7.

Agree Primafacie, excellend post. I just keep thinking about how lucky my brother and I were to have the parents we have who honestly couldn't love or support us more. I could only wish to be as good a mother as mine has been. i realise that I am looking at this issue in a microcosm but uts my exoerience and my culture and my family, friends and community. I am jewish and my best friend in the world is Muslim, and I love her family as my own, this is just very close to home for me. I suspect its far far outside some other posters sphere or experience.

breahteslowly, not true, there are many things that would be good for people's health that the NHS simply cannot afford to do.

go back 1000 years and what fraction of men looked like today's hardliners?

ICBINEG

Easy answer - nil. Today's hardliners dress as 17th century polish noblemen, as a rule.

As for whose skin is it - also easy - It's the baby's. Do I have a right to make certain decisions on the baby's behalf? Yes. Are vaccinations included? probably yes. What about circumcision? Well, clearly I (along with a large percentage of the world's population) think yes, and you think no. The difference is that you're trying to force enforce your opinion through the law, whereas the status of your child(ren) is of no interest to me.

Facial tattoos are culturally important to Maori people in traditions going back thousands of years
If a Maori parent believes tattooing is less painful in newborns, should they be free to go right ahead and get a big old tattoo across their newborn baby's face?
Or would it be better to let the child decide when he/she grows up?