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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think at last something has exposed this scandal

274 replies

Crumbledwalnuts · 06/08/2013 04:05

massive amounts paid to charity executives

it's almost a scam

OP posts:
Bowlersarm · 06/08/2013 09:45

Oh my Lord OP, what a very naive person you are. Not to have realised this.

Doesn't matter I suppose which charities you give to. As long as you keep on giving. Smile

noobieteacher · 06/08/2013 09:46

Haha - the Chair of the Charities Commission earns £150,000! Avinalaugh.

I think it's reverse publicity - they will encourage interest from the best people if they announce that you can earn lots of money running a charity.

A lot of charity boards consist of old boy network type people, who don't actually have much expertise in the area that the particular charity is involved in.

Bowlersarm · 06/08/2013 09:58

OP. Did it not occur to you or your DH to research where your money is going to?

Especially if you have money going out month after month in direct debits. Or clearly, you must have a lot of disposable income and it doesn't matter to you?

Personally I think it's great you will be giving other charities a go. And spreading donations around.

Can i suggest that either you or your DH now does a little bit of research this time?

Fourwillies · 06/08/2013 10:06

OP David Cameron has a personal fortune of a conservative estimate of. £10,000,000. Samantha Cameron's dad is worth £20,000,000. I doubt his salary gets touched. He isn't running the country on his salary.

Crumbledwalnuts · 06/08/2013 10:11

They don't adjust the salary according to the personal income of the man in the job. They get that whether they have personal wealth or not.

Bowlersarm: oh yes, that's why I don't give to those charities and he does. He researched the work they do rather than the salary structure. I've said it to him before but he is his own man.

OP posts:
Crumbledwalnuts · 06/08/2013 10:12

It's a joke, really. It's the same as the public sector, and private corps to a certain extent. Someone else's money so it doesn't matter.

OP posts:
Bowlersarm · 06/08/2013 10:13

Well, have fun choosing your new charities.

Fourwillies · 06/08/2013 10:13

"They don't adjust the salary according to the personal income of the man in the job. They get that whether they have personal wealth or not."

Well quite, so your argument is that there is no harder job than running the country, so no one should be paid more than this? Seriously?

Crumbledwalnuts · 06/08/2013 10:14

I've seen links here to very tiny charities, mainly run by women and helping women, which will benefit. Some of the mumsnetters involved in this kind of work, on very low salaries, are extremely impressive.

OP posts:
Crumbledwalnuts · 06/08/2013 10:18

Well you brought up his personal wealth, with a stupid . What on earth was your point?

OP posts:
bruffin · 06/08/2013 10:21

Those tiny charities will not have the impact on hundreds of thousands of people. And would also say that volunteers are not always the most professional of people. One actually did me out of nearly two weeks wages because she felt she was untouchable.

Fourwillies · 06/08/2013 10:22

I'll just repeat my question crumbledwalnuts

So your argument is that there is no harder job than running the country, so no one should be paid more than this?

Crumbledwalnuts · 06/08/2013 10:23

My husband has seen bigger charities at work in disaster zones. It's not the biggest charities that are always the most effective.

OP posts:
Crumbledwalnuts · 06/08/2013 10:23

I'll just repeat mine. What was your point?

OP posts:
Fourwillies · 06/08/2013 10:26

You brought up unjustifiable salaries in the third sector and then pointed out that some are paid more than the PM. I'm asking you what relevance of that is.

Binkybix · 06/08/2013 10:30

If we're talking about who 'should' be paid the most, maybe we need to think about two categories?

  1. A private/shareholder owned company that makes profit should presumably be allowed to use that profit how it likes - subject to good governance, remuneration committee etc (I know this is simplified).
  1. Roles funded by taxes/donations.

I don't really agree PM needs to have highest salary, but also don't understand the point of bringing up David Cameron's personal wealth.

flatpackhamster · 06/08/2013 10:31

Fourwillies

Words cannot express adequately what rot that is.

In your opinion. But you're approaching the argument from the following assumptions:

The state must do everything to help everyone;
The taxpayer should pay for this;
Any mechanism (ie charities) which extends the reach of the state in to people's lives is, by definition, a good thing.

If you work on those assumptions then what I wrote is 'rot'. But I don't work on the assumption that it's the job of the government to do absolutely everything. The last decade and a half have seen the extension of government in to more and more parts of our lives and a huge increase in unaffordable expenditure. Perhaps one of the locations where money is being wasted is in government contracts to charities.

How do you think the state would go about providing the services they currently purchase from specialist charities??? They would have to buy in the expertise, from the existing charity!

Of course they wouldn't. The roles the state needs to fulfil can be handled by state employees, who are trained and managed by the state.

The cost would be astronomic, not to mention the drain on manpower for the charity, to take on headcount, superannuated staff, all to provide a service they can tender and contract for cheaply using existing third sector.

'Cheaply'. That's a relative term if ever I saw one. To obtain taxpayers' money, the government has to obtain in through complex tax laws, process it through HMRC, push it through the sieve of bureaucracy up to the treasury, who then dole it back out to central government departments and local councils. How is that 'cheap'?

And As for "taking up time bidding for contracts" (my précis) that's simply not true, as the relationship between the charities and local govt is often such a close one that the tenders are written with the charities in mind. That's just good supplier relations and happens in a commercial setting too I might add.

Or 'rigging the market', as it's also known.

AmandaCooper · 06/08/2013 10:33

The job of prime minister of the United Kingdom is actually quite an attractive one for all sorts of reasons; there has to be a salary, otherwise the less well off would be completely excluded, but of all the perks that is probably the least important. There's no difficulty attracting good candidates from the private sector to the post.

Binkybix · 06/08/2013 10:40

Agree that tendering public contracts by writing tenders to favour one bidder is usually not allowed, apart from some restricted situations. Different in private sector because they don't have to tender - they do it to save money rather than fulfil legal obligations. I think. :)

Not saying in doesn't happen though.

Binkybix · 06/08/2013 10:40

And agree re PM job - and you rake it in afterwards!

Fourwillies · 06/08/2013 10:42

"In your opinion. But you're approaching the argument from the following assumptions:

The state must do everything to help everyone;
The taxpayer should pay for this;
Any mechanism (ie charities) which extends the reach of the state in to people's lives is, by definition, a good thing.

If you work on those assumptions then what I wrote is 'rot'. But I don't work on the assumption that it's the job of the government to do absolutely everything. The last decade and a half have seen the extension of government in to more and more parts of our lives and a huge increase in unaffordable expenditure. Perhaps one of the locations where money is being wasted is in government contracts to charities. "

Fair enough, that is how I read your initial post.
But there are expertise and experience in the chair you sector which wouldn't or couldn't transfer to local govt easily. One example off hand is a charity I've worked with, involving drugs and probation. Some of the key workers have a criminal history which would make them incompatible with moving to work for the state, yet their experience is invaluable. I also doubt they would want to, or even be able to comply with general workplace requirements but by being employed by a charity they're able to contribute something of real worth.

Regarding administration of contracts and the mechanisms in place, those mechanisms are in place for ALL govt contracts and purchasing. To set up and design and administer an entirely new in-house system would be hugely expensive.

And we will have to disagree about "rigging the market" - that's just plain account management.

Fourwillies · 06/08/2013 10:45

The way it works is the suppliers maintain good relations with the tender writers and also outline what services they can provide. Then the tendering organisation can take (or not take) this into account when writing the tender.

(As I type I'm sitting with an Oil and Gas type tender document and it's all surprisingly similar!)

Binkybix · 06/08/2013 10:50

I agree on specialist provision not needing to be done directly by Gvt, but I am pretty sure that writing a tender to favour one bidder (when public money) is against procurement law, so it's not really just good account management. As I say, there are some exceptions, such as security, but if challenged and upheld the contract can be undone and compensation required.

Binkybix · 06/08/2013 10:57

Oh ok - yes, you can engage to understand what is available of course and put that in a tender. But you can't put things in purely to make it more likely one bidder will succeed over the other (ie not directly related to service). I don't think we're actually disagreeing on this :)

BrokenSunglasses · 06/08/2013 11:14

The poster's point was that she would rather give those things than money because she thought that money doesn't go where she thinks it 'should'. If everybody starts to think like that then lots of these charities aren't going to exist at all, particularly the smaller local ones.

I agree with this point. I help run a very small charity, and the regular donations from individuals are what enable us to actually exist. We have found it easy to find grants and donations of hundreds or thousands of pounds to pay for equipment we need, but without the small donations from individuals we wouldn't be able to pay for the insurance or servicing to enable us to actually use the larger donations. Companies and grant giving organisations don't want to pay for the boring stuff that no one except the treasurer and trustees notice.