AIBU in thinking employers should be able to refuse to employ smokers?

[TiggyD]

1. You should judge aplicants on their decisions. Yes. They chose to smoke which means they're likely to die earlier, smell, be ill etc. They have made a really bad decision: To smoke.

1. If they say they regret their decision but can't give up they're addicts. I would tend to avoid giving known drug addicts or alcoholics a job, and the same goes for tobacco addicts.

I wouldn't want to work for anyone who doesn't understand the, importance of autonomy, the reasons as to why we make the decisions that we do, the ability that we all have to ignore the full reality of our choices (this is an important human survival tactic, that if we didn't possess we wouldn't cope with day to day life).

The ability to recognise our own bias and separate that from decision making in the workplace is important, as well as similar qualities, especially at management level.

If i found out that a decision to not employ someone without very good reason, such as close personal care being given, to people who are allergic, then i would look for another job.

Thankfully i wouldn't have to, as being employed by an LA, there would be an internal inquiry and that person would soon have the power taken away from them, if they didn't change.

OP take the particular decision out of the equation and what you are asking is "should an employer be able to refuse to employ someone who makes the decision to do something that is legal and isn't a high risk activity".

Some people smoke to alleviate anxiety issues, i judge those that would think they are lesser people, because they smoke, for whatever reason.

I have worked with many people over my twenty five year working life and they have smelt and took the piss over breaks for many reasons, smokers being one of the lesser in numbers.

As an employer I would like to do a personality test so that I could not offer employment to irritating judgemental people. Imagine that OP, you would be unemployable :)

There would not be many people employed then - because almost everybody is judgemental.

Yabvvvvvu

"Their risk taking gene and ability to not give a fuck often goes hand in hand with incredible creativity- I have never known an incredibly creative type who didn't smoke actually (or at least was at some point a smoker)- the pursed lips joyless types however, tend to be less useful in the workplace."

Please, please tell me this is a piss take

Employers don't chose employees based on the decisions they take, what a ridiculous statement. They chose employees on their ability to do the job.

In my long and varied working life, I have observed that the players of contact sports and recently married women of child bearing age are the ones whose decisions most impact their ability to work.

I smoke. I don't require a break other than my lunch hour to smoke, and I will smoke on my own free time, because it's mine.

No one at work knew I was a smoker for a long time, so I obviously didn't smell or take extended breaks, I've just been given more responsibility so my addiction and bad habits don't seem to be affecting my ability to do my job well.

What a ridiculous thread.

Davsmum Some more so than others...

They chose to smoke which means they're likely to die earlier, smell, be ill etc

There is also a school of thought exactly the same about fat people - they get ill, smell and die early.

And that is the type of thinking that leads to women of childbearing age not being employed as they may have time off for MW appts. maternity leave etc. I am a smoker and I have had less time off sick than most of my colleagues - I also work many extra hours (for no extra pay) and am considered extremely reliable. As pp have said, where does it end? What a load of bollocks!

If someone is competent and reliable, why the fuck does it matter what they do in their own lives??

Their risk taking gene and ability to not give a fuck often goes hand in hand with incredible creativity- I have never known an incredibly creative type who didn't smoke actually (or at least was at some point a smoker)- the pursed lips joyless types however, tend to be less useful in the workplace.

yep, I like that, so I'm going to agree with you

Am shocked that so many people work in jobs where smokers dont get extra breaks, they have in every job I've ever done!

DH is just telling me that in his works, it is specifically written in the contract that smokers get one fag break per shift then take two per hour? Intrigued now, surely thats blatent discrimination...?

aldi - people I work with are always very surprised when they find out I'm a smoker, so obviously I don't reek of smoke either.

YABU.

Never had fag breaks where I have worked either. I just smoked during the normal breaks that everyone else had, I have never known anywhere that gets extra breaks for smokers.

I tell a lie. When I was working before I had DD it was still legal to smoke in workplaces and my boss did. In our open plan office, with me pregnant, 2 others with asthma...... but she was a fecking bitch!

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard OP

You Op, are an arse of a person!

Op Yabvu but the "porpoise" you've had me in hysterics

I would go so far as to say that only smokers can be creative, but I do agree that certain things tend to go hand in hand. My circle of friends are an electic mix of company CEO's through "normal" people like us (!) to amazingly talented musicians artists and writers. Without fail all of the creative types smoke and all of the high flyers dont. Of the rest of us, the smokers tend to be the boho types who would like to be talented musicians etc but either lack the talent or have ended up with a mortgage and 3 kids!

Sorry that is, "I wouldnt go so far as to say..."

maybe the employer wants another smoker to talk to while he has a fag break

I love this thread.

As an ex-smoker (god I love typing that) ummm, nope, nothing more to add, just wanted to type that. exxxxx smmmmmoker aaaaah, ex smoker. 66 days fag- and stink-free.

TiggyD I'm happy to say I could work for you now.

Interestingly, people with mental illnesses are more likely to smoke, especially those with bipolar disorder. Could account for the creativity factor. Stephen Fry famously admits that he self-medicates with fags and booze (and drugs previously, but I think he's off those now).

I'm bipolar so I'm allowed to make sweeping generalisations about it