To think that the ESTA application programme to get into the US is a bit hair-raising?

[pointythings]

Was doing applications for me and DDs to go to Disney in 2 weeks (and yes, I really should have done it earlier, I know!) and at the end I got.... Application Pending. ! Have always, always been approved straight away, was having all kinds of visions of not being able to go.

When I checked half an hour later we were approved, but it really wasn't good for my blood pressure...

And kickass - absolutely agree re the driving license rules. The DMV should be declared unfit for purpose!

A few months back I stood, incredulous, as three officials argued amongst themselves over whether I had the right paperwork or not. No one actually knew in the end! I'd also been told two different things when I phoned in advance in order to avoid exactly this problem.

A return visit saw me take my test (paperwork finally deemed acceptable) - but they forgot to check the paper part of my UK license, test my eyes and managed to spell my name incorrectly on the license card itself. I've got friends who've turned up and been turned away, only to rejoin the queue and be allowed to do the test. Seriously. It's like a third world country here at times (and I'm in the nation's capital!).

Apologies for the thread hijack btw!

Wibbly -- There are tax treaties that may or may not work in favour of Americans living and working abroad. It's worth keeping abreast of that aspect of US citizenship. In most cases, those countries where US citizens would actually be making a liveable / taxable income have tax treaties and anywhere else you would possibly be making far less than the US tax threshold (in the developing world for instance). Plus by the time a child is 18 things could change.

When I took my first US driving test I did it in a redneck town in Missouri and brought a huge stack of INS papers (back when it was the INS) and my Irish passport, which caught the official's eye as she was apparently the great granddaughter of Irish immigrants. She said 'Oh honey I'm sure this is all just fine. Y'all look honest - good luck now' (I failed the test but passed the next day). When I moved to the next state I just ported the licence and avoided all the hassle of doing it or the first time in a state with a high immigrant population.

Math - I know, who knows what will change over the next however many years? However, as things stand now, if unborn DC were to go and work in a country where tax was less than what was paid in the US, or none existent, he or she would end up paying that difference to the IRS (over a certain threshold, obviously). I have no idea how this can be enforced in reality - I guess time will tell!

Re the driving test - what worries me more is the standard of driving here!

Just drive defensively. You get idiots everywhere.

Wibbly are you saying that someone with dual nationality could potentially end up having to pay dual income tax too?

Well, DDs will be travelling on their US passports.

The law changed last year. In reality (and I only know about UK/US nationality as this is what will affect my DC), UK tax rates tend to be higher than in the US so new baby would be exempt from paying any extra to the IRS if he or she lived and worked in the UK. However, if he or she were to work in a country where tax rates were lower or none-existent, there could well be a situation where the difference between the local tax rate and the current US tax rate had to be paid to the IRS.

Now, as Math says, this could well change over the next 18 years! However, that's the situation as it now stands - and like I said above, I have no idea how this could actually be policed or monitored.

Thanks, wibbly, I'll encourage the DDs to work in high tax economies, probably like Denmark or Sweden, where they get treated like human beings in terms of employment and maternity rights as well, that way it's a win-win.

It's true that US tax rates are very low - DH pays only federal taxes and although he earns less than I do, his take home is more than mine.

www.usembassy.org.uk/americanservices/?p=544

This answers some questions but it's pretty hard to find definitive answers!

Agreed pointy - and I do wonder what will happen in years to come when/if expat children who have subsequently had very little to do with the US suddenly find themselves liable for bills, purely because their parents happened to be in a certain country at a certain time when they were born.

I don't know of any other country that imposes such a rule - does anyone else?

Also, the current Foreign Earned Income threshold is about $80,000 or, at today's exchange rate, about £50,000.

Like I say to my husband, I wish I had to pay US taxes!

Luxemburg does, actually, Wibbly. Or so I've been told!

When we went to Florida in March I warned the DCs to not joke or mess about in any way at passport control. It would all be very serious. Then as the officer was taking mine and DH's fingerprints he turned to the DCs and said 'You comin' to see the Mouse!'.

He surprised me with his welcoming attitude. It gave me a great first impression of his country.

Wibbly, it's not policing earned income, but have you read much about FACTA? I've heard that in some countries it is becoming increasingly difficult for permanent US expats to open even basic bank accounts because of the future responsibilities and liabilities to the foreign bank. Fortunately I don't see any sign of that happening in the UK though increasingly companies are specifically asking whether you are a US citizen on financial application forms (instead of the old generic citizenship question).

I know a lot of people think dual citizenship is absolutely peachy and that's fine, but between filing federal tax returns and FBARs every year and having to assess every normal UK financial product (e.g. ISAs and other tax beneficial investment products) against the IRS system and various other headaches, I think there's an awful lot that dual children need to consider when they become adults.

Ack, FATCA not FACTA!

My take on it is that with the DDs growing up in Europe and learning European values and ideals from DH and me, they may very well not think that US citizenship is worth having. I certainly and increasingly wouldn't think it is worth it. Ultimately it's their decision though, not mine and DH's.

Turbotax is the solution to many problems of expats.

I personally would never let the chance of financial aid for third level education in the US slip away. Professional education afterwards would be another draw (med school, law school)

Turbotax? Stocks and shares ISAs (which are one example of a bog standard UK financial product) are considered to be PFICs by the IRS. How the heck do you run those through Turbotax?

Turbotax is OK for those with very simplistic financial arrangements- e.g. someone who is not a permanent expat but it's useless for anyone who is financially fully integrated into the UK.

I have a degree from a top notch US college and I found that I needed to do a postgraduate course in the UK before my qualifications would be considered worthwhile over here. Unless my DC plan to emigrate to the US I personally wouldn't be encouraging a US degree over a UK one, but to each his own.

oh dear lord, the tax situation.

it is the bane of our lives. 2 tax returns each, knowing which conversion factors to use, different tax dates, etc etc. sometimes I just want to get our savings and stuff the mattress with them.

That's interesting re Luxembourg Tee.

FATCA scares me Taz!

As does Turbotax Math - certainly wouldn't have helped us unfortunately.

Isn't the tax system great, Kickass? Been here just over a year and still not sorted properly. Just received UK tax rebates from 12/13 and finally got 2012 US rebate (3 days state, 3 months federal) as we majorly overpaid in both countries due to moving part way through each country's tax year, only to find that DH had more than paid this year's anticipated US tax bill by May of this year. We'll have moved elsewhere by the time it all comes out in the wash!

I guess I'll have to make Turbo tax my friend once we move back home. We'll need both state and federal this coming January, I'm dreading it.
The just federal until we die!
I wonder if the free federal edition is good enough or will I have to buy the fancy version online every year.

Wibbly, beware. That rebate from the UK will have to be declared to the US, and vice versa. Then they will each adjust your tax for this current year(ie try to get their % of that rebate) but because the dates are different, the refunds may well fall in different years. Then the year after, they will see that you were taxed on your refund, so try to give you a refund of xxx to cover that.

We've been here 5 years and each of us has about £700 which just bounces around between the US and UK tax office each year.

Thanks kickass - it's on my (many) spreadsheets!

I'm an American married to German, residing in the UK. I have long-term residency paperwork here now, but it's rarely a jolly experience going through passport control here in the UK. Hell, getting DS across the border to France was particularly painful, and he's the only one of the three of us who was actually born here.

I digress. I don't think there has been a time when we've traveled to the US as a family and I haven't been disgusted by the way the Homeland Security people treat my husband. Thankfully he's German and doesn't try to be amusing.

It's all down to the individual. Sometimes you get a good ol' boy (like the one who, when questioned about the non-US queue not moving, told me it was because "we don't trust them" ) sometimes you get someone brilliant who is actually kind and will chat a bit about life (and I realise the chat is trying to get you to talk about yourself, but they're professional about it).

Totally agree that there should be a reciprocal agreement where US citizens should be charged to enter the EU.

I travel to the US on business - LAX and JFK.

Without doubt the most stupid and rude immigration officials and security staff I've ever met.

I had no problem with my ESTA but when I went to New York having replaced a lost passport I knew I would be 'taken aside' at passport control. Yes I was, and while waiting to be interviewed, I realised the background music was, 'America' from West Side Story. Actually the immigration officer was very polite, but I did not make a gag about the music.

I think my favourite, just recalled, US Immigration moment was when we went through SFO 3.5 years ago.

"Why is your passport issued by the State Department?!?!"
"Because I live permanently in the UK."
"What?!?! WHY?!?!"
"Um...because I do?"

She honestly, I swear, had never met an Ex-pat before!!