To think that the ESTA application programme to get into the US is a bit hair-raising?

[pointythings]

Was doing applications for me and DDs to go to Disney in 2 weeks (and yes, I really should have done it earlier, I know!) and at the end I got.... Application Pending. ! Have always, always been approved straight away, was having all kinds of visions of not being able to go.

When I checked half an hour later we were approved, but it really wasn't good for my blood pressure...

The reason we want them to travel on their Dutch passports is because immigration at the UK end have been so foul to them and DH on multiple occasions. When we came back after the Icelandic volcano debacle DH and the DDs were pulled aside by a UKBA guy who interrogated them for a full 20 minutes and made no attempt whatsoever to put the DDs at ease - they were 7 and 9, so clearly they were a major terrorist threat . All their paperwork was completely in order too, they had no reason to behave like that - they just wanted to and I am convinced of that. I'd do anything to spare them that, even flipping ESTA.

The Dutch immigration people have always been polite, friendly and professional with my DH and DDs - why do the UK ones have to be so unpleasant?

olyroller my son has a british passport although he is eligible for an American one (his dad is American) we have never actually applied for it. We've been to the US on his British passport with no issues but I was told by a friend after our trip that this is in fact illegal and that he should have applied for and travelled using an American passport. I remember doing some online research at the time which confirmed this but ive just had another look and can't find the relevant link. I was concerned that this may flag up on his records if he ever returned to the US

MadameJosaphine, you're right, it is illegal to enter the US on a foreign passport if you are eligible for US citizenship, but don't worry too much about it. I know quite a few people who have unwittingly entered on a foreign passport and then later got their US one and entered again with no problem.

Last time we went through immigration in Philly the immigration officer actually told me I'd made a good decision to apply for my DCs citizenship because it would "open up opportunities to them" in the future. I thought it might put him off us if I pointed out that actually legally they HAD to enter on their US passport, but goes to show that not everyone, even in immigration is aware of the law!

In reality I think it would depend on how you're travelling. I suspect that if my DC had entered the US with their father instead of me on a UK passport they'd have been fine- there's nothing to show that they are American without me. However, the embassy told me that as soon as immigration see my passport they will be looking for my DC to either have their own US passport or a claim to no US citizenship (a whole different process where a parent is American but doesn't fulfil the US residency requirements to automatically pass it onto their children) certificate.

My boyfriend and I transited through Charlotte earlier this year - I was waved forwards at passport control, did the fingerprints, body scan, photo etc. The immigration man then asked me if I was travelling alone - no, said I, I'm with him (pointing at bf behind me).

So he waved him forwards, looked at his passport, then looked at mine and said "But you have different names!"

Yes, I said, we're not married.

But you're together?

Yes.

Oh. Oh. Well, that's OK I guess.

Eeeek just looked it up - I will be bringing both their US and their Dutch passports.

So if your kids have both US and UK (or Dutch) citizenships and you enter US on the UK (or Dutch) passports, did you do the ESTA for them? Isn't there a question in there asking about having US citizenship or being eligible for it?
We are all dual, and the cost of keeping up all the passports with kids every 5 years and paperwork is annoying. I was going to let all the US passports lapse, and use UK ones only seeing we'll be traveling in Europe mostly anyway, but I don't want to do the ESTA and lie about having US ones if the question is in there.

It's not just illegal to travel into the US when you are a citizen without using a US Passport, it can prevent you from claiming your citizenship at a later date.

I will never be a UK citizen as there is no point in spending the money, so I will remain on my ILR for as long as I live here, which will probably be the rest of my life.

My son can do what he wants when he's 18, including apply for the RoI passport he's eligible for if he so chooses. Paying for 2 is enough for me!

Don't forget not all children of US citizens are eligible for US citizenship themselves.
If the parent hasn't lived in US long enough and so many years after age 14 (I think) then the parent can't pass it on.

Squinkies there is no question in ESTA about having American citizenship, it just asks you for your country of citizenship. I did ESTA for all three of us. The DDs have both Dutch and US citizenship (though I understand they will have to choose when they turn 18).

I suspect the DDs will opt for their EU citizenship as their whole life has been here. They may also choose to naturalise and become British citizens - that's up to them.

when we first went to florida it was the one you did on the plane and handed it I thought oh god what if i do it wrong then got into the airport and saw the security i was a quivering wreck by the time I got up to the desk and DH got stopped and searched

Squinkies the DDs have US passports so they must have been eligible - DH has been sent all around the world during his military career, perhaps it's because he was military that he is still eligible?

Yes, there are exceptions for military service in terms of 'passing on' your citizenship eligibility.

That must be a thing between Netherlands and US, having to chose? Because my son can have dual the rest of his life, if he wants.

I don't know, Tee - the Netherlands recognise dual nationality, I thought it was the US who didn't? Or maybe it's for children born in the UK to a British parent and a US parent who is military, who are likely to end up back in the US? I'd like my DDs to retain dual nationality if it's possible, obviously.

Am still bringing both passports for the girls though. It can all go in the same wallet with my marriage certificate and US base ID.

I think it depends on what country the dual nationality is with. I know my brother in law retains both his US and UK citizenship.

This really, really puts me off travelling to the States, paying for a Florida Disney holiday would be a huge deal for us, but I know I would be a nervous wreck until through immigration. I don't know if it's worth the hassle :(

cockerpoodle I think that if you don't have dual nationality issues and are boringly normal you should be fine. If you have a Middle Eastern name you will probably get some grief, unfortunately. I've now travelled to the US 7 times and still find it stressful - we will probably not go again after this - but we'll survive.

Thanks Pointy I wondered what questions were in the ESTA.
If I remember right the US doesn't recognize Dual nationality but they don't object, just turn a blind eye.
Our old accountant was Dutch he never got US citizenship, he said that he would lose his Dutch nationality and he'd never do that (not sure if that's true now days), us being UK citizens have both with no issues.
I think we'll concentrate of travels in Europe once we move back, no need to even come to US all the close family moved back already, just me Dh and Dd to go.

The US does not recognize dual citizenship but it does recognize thar other countries do.

If you have US citizenship then you should use that to enter and leave the country as they won't recognize the other one without you giving up US citizenship.

If you become a US citizen you are meant to give up citizenship of your previous nation, but they do recognize that other countries recognize dual citizenship.

You can file taxes using an ITIN (individual tax identification number) which is the same format as a SSN but the first 3 digits are a specific range reserved for ITINs and not used for SSN.

Do you want me to go over the rules about driving licenses? They make passport and citizenship a stroll in the park.

And based on personal experience, Northern Ireland have the most officious staff at security, far more so than the US immigration, but I fly in and out of Detroit which is apparently one of the most laid back airports.

It's not just illegal to travel into the US when you are a citizen without using a US Passport, it can prevent you from claiming your citizenship at a later date.

This needs to be underlined and bolded and should appear in red.

Children and adults can retain all the nationalities and passports they want to but if US citizenship is among them they must use the US passports to enter the US or they forfeit the citizenship.

While you may think a US passport and the citizenship is a bit of a faff when the children are younger, it is well worth holding onto it for later, as opportunities to study in the US and avail of financial aid may make it well worthwhile.

Pointy-- there is no question in ESTA about American citizenship because if you are American then you don't need to fill out the ESTA. I don't think your DCs will have to choose between citizenships when they are 18 unless the Netherlands makes them do so. DD1 got her Irish passport at age 18 and claimed citizenship. She is now a dual US and Irish citizen though in the eyes of the US she is American only.

Euphemia -- yes, bring that letter and also documents establishing your ID and your relationship to the DC and the father's relationship to the DC.

I have never felt more threatened than when entering the US. Despite my lovely UK passport.

"And based on personal experience, Northern Ireland have the most officious staff at security, far more so than the US immigration, but I fly in and out of Detroit which is apparently one of the most laid back airports."

Really? I have never found NI staff to be all that. In fact, having just flown from Belfast City to Heathrow I can tell you that not one person asked to see our passports. Not one person checked that the name on our boarding passes matched our ID.

Tee, a couple of years back I had a bad experience going through security (not immigration, obv) on that same route. I travel it about once a year and often find them quite loud and assertive in their instructions (ie shouts and pointy).

Whereas US immigration may be bordering on the robotic, but they are never impolite or aggressive. I will admit I never got a smile though, until I started going through the residents line. Same for the embassy, unemotional and sticklers for doing things the right way, but still polite and organized, not rude or aggressive.

I have never experienced that at either Belfast Airport, Kick. Strange how experiences can vary so much.

Yes, you definitely need to enter the US on a valid US passport if you have one - and airlines will often refuse travel to you if you turn up with the wrong passport eg a UK and not a US passport at LHR attempting to travel to NYC.

From a career at LHR long past, it was amazing the number of people who were unaware of the rules, despite their children being dual UK/US nationals. I've had many a debate with an irate mother or father, whose children had out of date (and hence invalid) US passports and wanted to go to the US on their UK documents. Yes, technically, we could have let you on the 'plane - but you'd have been turned back by the US authorities and my airline would have been billed with repatriating you. Hence, we didn't aid and abet breaking the rules!

I'm a bit surprised at the blasé attitude lots of people have to this kind of thing in general, especially with the relatively new tax rules that came in for those born in the US recently. My next baby will be born in the US and we have done lots of research into what this means - so baby will need to be issued with a US passport first, then a UK one either through the embassy or on our next UK visit. DH, DD and I will have UK passports/visas to travel into the US on, new baby will have a US passport. Similarly, DH and new baby will have SS numbers, DH through work and new baby through being seen as a US citizen. DD (UK born) and I are not entitled to SS numbers, but rather ITINs in order for our tax return to be processed.

Once new baby reaches 18, he or she can decide whether or not to retain the US nationality. Yes, in some ways this will open doors, but in others, eg if he or she were to work in a country where earnings were significantly higher than the US, he or she would then end up owing tax to the US government. This doesn't sit easy with me, all due to incidence of birth, but them's the rules at present, whether we like them or not.