Aibu to think that sueing the church over gay marriage is not acceptable?

[Orlux]

Here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383686/Millionaire-gay-fathers-sue-Church-England-allowing-married-church.html


I supported the right of gay couples to have same rights as heterosexual ones, but I feel this is going to far. Plus my religious friends (I'm agnostic) are now having a go at my naivety.

[Toadinthehole]

By your own admission, you know nothing about the subject. I agree with that admission. It was very accurate, given your subsequent comments.

[Toadinthehole]

(last post of mine to Orlox)

[ANormalOne]

Midnite

I completely agree, Vicars/Churches shouldn't be forced to do anything, but this law prevents those who want to perform ceremonies from being able to do so.

That's the issue as far as I am concerned.

[Habbibu]

My gran married my step-grandad in a Catholic church, both in their 70's. How does that fit in with the procreation argument?

[Eyesunderarock]

'Is a church allowed to refuse to marry someone on grounds of race?'

Well, there was that Baptist church in Mississippi last year who did exactly that. The pastor/vicar from their church married them in a church down the road that had a mainly black congregation.

[Toadinthehole]

That's nothing impressive. Abraham and Sarah were about twenty years older, weren't they?

[Habbibu]

Ah, true. So non-fertile couples are allowed on the basis that miracles may occur?

[MidniteScribbler]

I am yet to actually meet and talk to a priest that disagrees with same sex marriage. And yes I know quite a few of them. Our priest was happy to stand up at the commitment ceremony of a couple in our parish (gay marriage not yet legal here) and say a blessing and he has said he will be pleased to officiate at their wedding when it becomes legal for them to do so.

[Eyesunderarock]

Only if her first husband was dead and not divorced though. Catholic priests can be picky about divorced couples.

[DoJo]

I find the argument about 'why would you want to get married somewhere that rejects your sexuality' specious - would it be acceptable to have asked black people why they would want to drink somewhere where they weren't welcome during racial segregation? Challenging inequality wherever it lies is the only way to effect change, and I'm sure the church can use some of its 5.5 billion spare quid to fight their case.

[Eyesunderarock]

Every now and then, there's a Religious that makes you feel that perhaps they're not all narrow-minded obsessives with an evangelical bent.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23464694

[ANormalOne]

I know a lot of Christian LGBTs, but they're tend to be Quakers rather than CoE. The one CoE couple I do know have never encountered any bigotry in their local parish and they've been attending for 11 years, why shouldn't they be able to get married in their parish among their friends?

[OutragedFromLeeds]

They can 'force' religious institutions to perform gay marriages without forcing any individual person to go against their beliefs. If there are gay parishioners there will be gay priests/vicars/rabbis etc. Only the ones who are comfortable with it need do the ceremony.

[Orlux]

MidniteScribbler, don't know what they believe in half the time, the whole thing is like a little fantasy world where the rules change day-to-day.

Anyway, my point is simple: nobody -other than government-appointed officials -should be compelled to marry anybody they don't want to.

And it's only discriminatory against gay couples to refuse to marry them if there's no viable alternative-which there is: register office, hotels, you name it.

[ANormalOne]

Eyes
He's a great man that routinely restores my faith in humanity.

[Toadinthehole]

There are plenty of CofE parish churches were LGBTs won't get nonsense, and they attend those parishes.

[WilsonFrickett]

Marrying gay couples in a church would make a complete and utter nonsense of the church itself

Do you know what Orlux, you really need to go and find out what the various Christian Churches in the UK actually think before posting things which are based on your perception of Christianity and are utter shit.

You don't know what every church thinks about gay marriage. Because many of them are welcoming to all sorts of people and many of them are happy to celebrate love in Jesus name, wherever they see it.

And I am not a Christian, by the way. But it's common sense to fact-check before posting on others' behalf.

[JakeBullet]

The thing is that there ARE religious people who d t have a problem and WILL perform marriages etc. My cousin had a civil ceremony so years ago performed by a vicar.

I don't see why it can't be in a church personally.

But should we FORCE the church to do this? No I don't agree.

One reason why they need to keep their noses out of the whole marriage debate.

My friend who is a Catholic priest says that in his opinion the church should "butt out, live and let live". I doubt he would have any qualms about performing a marriage for a gay couple because in his opinion it's all about love.

I still don't think a chuch should HAVE to do this though. Fine if they agree to it and I suspect many would.

[Eyesunderarock]

I like the idea that a couple with a strong sense of right, almost unlimited funds and a robust attitude to publicity are taking this campaign on.
Icebreakers.
Makes it easier for the ordinary folk to follow after.

[ANormalOne]

Orlux You're grasping at straws now, that's an incredibly stupid argument.

And it's only discriminatory against gay couples to refuse to marry them if there's no viable alternative-which there is: register office, hotels, you name it.

Boils down to - having a whites only fountain isn't discriminatory because they have a blacks only fountains available for them to use. Utter nonsense.

[GrimmaTheNome]

My gran married my step-grandad in a Catholic church, both in their 70's. How does that fit in with the procreation argument?

well, quite. Its a totally ridiculous argument.

However, I'm inclined to think that the government was right to just cut the CofE out of gay marriage - waiting for them to get their act together would take decades, just look at women bishops.

There are other churches which are happy to marry gay couples (the URC is in favour for instance, it also treats women equally, and is more similar to CofE than eg the Quakers.). Perhaps people should consider moving to a church where they'd be fully welcome? Leave the dinosaur churches to fossilise.

[Anniegetyourgun]

Marrying gay couples in a church would make a complete and utter nonsense of the church itself, you just couldn't take them seriously anymore if they allowed it.

Er - bullshit? And rather a different argument from the ostensible "it's fine but they shouldn't be forced to" line of this thread

Methinks some true colours are oozing out now, and it ain't pink.

(ps I'm a Christian, although not these days a churchgoing one, and I absolutely think gay people should be married in church if they want to.)

(pps I am also a single mother, which I guess makes me pretty abhorrent as I have deprived my youngest child of having a parent of each sex in his life. Burn me at the stake if you think you're 'ard enough.)

[OTheHugeManatee]

So you are not personally religious an your objection to this is a libertarian one, Orlux?

[Orlux]

Anniegetyourgun, you're a Christian, you believe in a sky fairy, I don't, with respect, I can't take the views of people who are Christians very seriously.

[littlemisswise]

I knew it would be those 2 before I even clicked on the article. The are attention seeking, fame whores. I am surprised we haven't seen them, or possibly their kids, rock up on the XFactor or Britain's Got Talent, tbh.

I wasn't allowed to get married in church because DH had been married before. We just got married somewhere else because that's what normal people do. They don't chuck their toys out of the pram, shout it's not fair, it's all about me, I want it so I am having it, so I must sue!

Why get married somewhere where you are not wanted, by someone who doesn't want to do it?