Aibu to think that sueing the church over gay marriage is not acceptable?

[Orlux]

Here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383686/Millionaire-gay-fathers-sue-Church-England-allowing-married-church.html

I supported the right of gay couples to have same rights as heterosexual ones, but I feel this is going to far. Plus my religious friends (I'm agnostic) are now having a go at my naivety.

Oh yes, children do indeed care a lot about sameness. For example, they must all have the precise brand of trainers that the richest kid in class has. Unfortunately life is not like that. A parent's job is not to provide everything the child can possibly want, if that were even possible, but to manage its expectations. Children also have to learn not to be rude to classmates who are a different colour, or who wear glasses. They can as easily take on board that some classmates have different parental setups as that some live in different kinds of house and go different places for their holidays. It's all part of growing up.

Annie are you seriously comparing a pair of trainers to a child's need for a mother?!!

What usually matters to a child is 'sameness'. Same as peers in class.

The obvious solution to that is for more gay couple to have children so that it becomes normalised.

Oh but some people based on absolutely nothing but their own narrow mindedness think same sex couple don't make good parents so that's clearly reason enough for a whole group of people to to give up on their dreams of parenthood

CofE can already discriminate against divorced people, can't they? Refuse to marry them, I think.

In my mind a lawsuit is just stirring. :(

I think many churches interpret the Bible n their own way quite honestly.

ALL churches do this, all sects, even. They all pick and choose which bits to believe & follow from their holy traditions & literature. Read The Year of Living Biblically. One of the best NF books I've read in last decade.

"What usually matters to a child is 'sameness'. Same as peers in class. They tend to be very conservative. A good parent knows this"

And instead of trying to raise children to accept differences, we should stop the differences happening?

lets get rid of all the ginger children too, and disabled ones, oh and any that wear glasses or have parents that dress a bit oddly.

Oh and very few children in my DCs classes live with both their parents, should I kick their dad out so that they fit in?

Children don't come with an inbuilt idea of what constitutes parents or a family, they see theirs and assume it is normal, meet others and learn that they come in many different forms, it's not hard to tell them that some children have two mummies or daddies and why, just like it's not hard to tell them why some children only have one parent or are raised by grandparents, or have one mummy and a daddy that lives with them and a daddy that doesn't.

I managed to do it with my children - unless you're saying that mine are clearly geniuses who understood what other children wouldn't?

Whole group of people, GettingVerySleepy, nobody is stopping any gay person having a child at all, just that it has opposite sex parents in its life.

Not that I've met any gay man who has interest in being a father- and I know about 50- but that is not the point.

Thousands of children go without a Dad and no-one batters a eye-lid.
There are children without a mothers right now that are safe and happy.
A child does not need a mum anymore than they need a dad.

A child needs a loving, Safe home to be cared for both physically and emotionally. If the child has this they have had the best possible upbringing. This can be achieved by a single parent or a parent team. The sex of the parents is in no way a factor.

You can't go round crossing bits of the Bible out just because you don't agree with it

OT history is one thing, but Jesus didn't even mention homosexuality, as he was far more concerned with social justice. Many non-fundamentalist Christians interpret the Bible as not being against gay marriage.

I'm saying that children being conservative and liking to fit in with their peers is a non-argument.

It amazes me how people are so blase about gender here. As if gender is irrelevant in their lives. It's such nonsense.

If gender didn't matter:

1, There'd be no need for feminism
2, We'd all be bisexual-after all, no difference between men and women, right?

Can't have it both ways: either gender matters ergo a child should have the opportunity to be exposed to parents of either gender or it's irrelevant and we should give up women's rights.

I think God has more important things to care about IMHO..

... oh here we go, I'm not prejudiced, some of my best friends are etc.

nobody is stopping any gay person having a child at all, just that it has opposite sex parents in its life.

So how would that work, then? I definitely agree that it's best if a child has lots of different kinds of people in its life so it doesn't grow up to be narrow minded, so in the interests of diversity it would seem like a good idea if the gay couple had a few straight family friends as well. Would that satisfy your requirement?

not that I've met any gay men who have an interest in being a father.
Hint - see your OP and the article you linked to for an example. And they are far from the only ones.

Do you think gender is important or not, Annie?

A child should have the opportunity to be exposed to PEOPLE of all types. No disagreement there. And I'm quite sure they will be.

Fail to see where women's rights come into it. Just because men and women exist doesn't mean that one of each getting together is compulsory (thank God.) And just because two men are capable of bringing up a child does not mean that women will eventually cease to exist.

In my mind a lawsuit is just stirring.

I actually don't understand this lawsuit. Government legislation has barred the CofE from conducting same-sex marriages. The couple should surely have brought a case against the government not the church?

there are plenty of esteemed psychiatrists, child psychologists who would agree with me
you haven't provided quotes/links. And even if you did, individual opinions even by such people simply don't stack up against proper studies, such as the one I linked to.

Why would a gay man want to have a child with a lesbian rather than with his loving partner within the confines of a monogamous stable relationship? What a bizarre idea!

Why can't two men have and raise a baby?? There is a young girl in my DS's class who is raised by two men. What is the problem?

Can't have it both ways: either gender matters ergo a child should have the opportunity to be exposed to parents of either gender or it's irrelevant and we should give up women's rights.

can anyone extract any sense from that statement?

Er she has two loving parents which is a lot more than some children have these days. Why is the gender important?

"Can't have it both ways: either gender matters ergo a child should have the opportunity to be exposed to parents of either gender or it's irrelevant and we should give up women's rights."

What? That doesn't make sense...women's rights is based on the premise that genders are equal.

I cant extract any sense from any of the OP's posts, that one included, Grimma. So it would be selfish to have a child with his loving partner who he knows and trusts instead of some random woman who may not have the best interests of the child at heart just because she happens to have female genitalia? Makes. No. Sense.

Whether gender is important is a very wide-ranging question and I'm not sure it is really relevant to this discussion. I would say my gender is fundamental to my personal identity, but if a specialist told me tomorrow that I had some rare genetic disorder that meant I could only continue to live if I had immediate gender reassignment surgery (!), I'd go for it. It would take a lot of getting used to though. (Might be worth it just for the amusement value when XH found out.)

If you mean is gender important in nurturing a baby: I think there are a lot of societal norms that get in the way of men taking a full part in childcare, believing they can, or receiving appropriate support in doing so. Apart from breastfeeding I don't think there's anything a sensible, emotionally intelligent man can't do that a sensible, emotionally intelligent woman can. Nor anything a stupid, self-centred woman can't louse up just as well as a stupid, self-centred man, for that matter.