to be annoyed that being in the lowest socio-economic group seems to be an accepted excuse for bad parenting

[MummaEss]

I am constantly seeing reports in the media about how children from backgrounds of relative poverty are entering school without the necessary skills, have little or no access to books in their early years, are often hungry and generally ill equipped for school. In such reports the fact that these children are often the ones entitled to free school meals seems to change the focus of the issue from one of bad parenting to the problem being a symptom of being poor.

Now, I do understand that the pure statistics do indeed show a clear correlation between these problems and social grouping but I do not think that this should automatically mean that the families being financially poor is the problem. The problem is horrendously bad parenting.

I have raised my girls on a shoestring. I have been a single mum for years, have done my time on income support and now work for minimum wage yet I still managed to teach my girls the basics in personal hygiene and manners before they started school. They always had shelves full of books bought from charity shops and we regularly visited the library for free. Being hard up for cash has no effect on how you teach your children. Yes, I couldn't afford to send mine to ballet lessons or piano lessons but teaching good behavior, manners, bedtime, potty training etc is free and books and reading can be also.

So, AIBU to be annoyed and concerned that us poor people are getting bad press here?. Many of us manage to raise well rounded and educated children despite our financial dire straights and that those who don't can blame only their bad parenting and not their 'poverty'.

I am so glad a HV asked how we were doing financially. We had hit rock bottom, zero income and rotten advice from job centre. She found the right people to help and advise us and help us start properly on the road to recovery.

I have come across many people who have made vile, cruel assumptions about us due to poverty. It's incredibly upsetting and difficult to forget their comments. I still have to remind myself that they are just being judgmental arseholes and not stating fact. Tell myself that what they say about me defines them and not me.

Not read the other post but IMO manners cost nothing!

Being poor is no excuse for being lazy about teaching yours kids right from wrong, good manners etc

I too have done my time on benefits but that doesn't mean I'd let my kids run riot or be rude. We too have s house full of books. Bought cheaply at asda :)

I work with children and see lots of good parenting from all parts of society.
i also see some pretty dire parenting too, again from all sections of society
There is a little girl at the moment who never has suncream on, never brings in a hat, never brings in spare clothes or returns the clothes we send her home in after having accidents.
Her parents never take part in any of the activities we provide, and are always the last to pay, their cheques always bounce and we have to ask them for many all the time.
yesterday her mum forgot to bring her packed lunch and it arrived with dad minutes before lunch
her mum is a doctor and her dad is a polceman

I'm sorry marriedinwhite but that is utter horseshit.

Of course children need to be loved but if there is not the money to adequately feed them, or to heat their home, or to clothe them - then they need a whole lot more besides.

That's just hair stroking feelgood guff IMO, platitudes to make those who've never had to struggle feel better about the fact there are children in this country living in material poverty. "If only the parents loved their children more it would be fine" - well, not really

Most parents do love their children but love is not enough. To be a good parent you need to have parenting skills that you may lack if your own parents didn't model them when you were growing up. You need to be stable enough emotionally to give your children the emotional nurturing they need, which if you are permanently stressed about how to pay for essentials you may struggle with. You need to be able to provide your children with stability - hard if you are forced to move frequently to find work or because you can't afford the rent or are travellers with no permanent pitch. There's so much more besides, and all of it is made far far harder by poverty and lack of basic resources.

Just a quick point, for some people (maybe living on a shoestring in a village) that charity shop for cheap books or clothes or that library is actually a bus fare away - and perhaps they can't afford that.

At this point, those are both within walking distance from me, but when we lived in a smaller village in Devon, the bus was 2 times per hour (if you were lucky) and it cost over £4 to get to the local library. If we had been struggling, that would be a major spend.

Thankfully, I'm a huge reader and have tons of books in the house (for me and the DCs), but I can see where it might be difficult for some.

Basically there's a correlation.
As always doesn't mean it's a causal thing only.
But as PPs have said lots of factors that mean you are poorer will also make parenting more of a challenge - mainly the skills needed in our working lives are similar to those needed to parent well.
Then as well, as others have said, poverty and it's accompanying insecurity do bring a lot of extra pressures into family life.

I think poverty blinkers your view of life out of neccessity more than anything. I always think of what I was taught at college about short and long term gratification, with the long term gratification involving education etc. People think in the short term because economics dictate that. Going to university is a luxury that some people can't afford to encourage as it might mean that someone isn't going to be bringing in a wage.

This cycle is perpetuated by people thinking if X in the family has been ok and got by then so will they. The poverty trap is more than a enconomic trap but imo an attitudanal trap.

Somr people take a longer term.view of their childrens futures OP some people cant for whatever reason Education seems to be the key imo to helping to break the cycle.

Its not easy OP

The prejudice of low expecations is the most damaging prejudice there is.

Good example, insancerre. I hate the assumption that bad parenting is confined to the poor. There are just as many bad parents who are well-off. One type is the Dad who is too busy working/socialising with the excuse of it being work-related/playing golf at weekends to spend much time with their kids - and who is shouty and intolerant when they do deign to spend a few moments in the company of their offspring.

Having had a very middle class, very unhappy childhood I don't think that poorer parents are necessarily worse. Just that they may be less socially conditioned to hide it.

I think middle class parents are no less likely to give a child a clout - but they're much more likely to do it where they won't be seen - because they have so much more to lose.

Tabitha agree too with your point regarding expectations that often lead to self fulfilling propher y unfortunately.

It's amazing how we worry about children born into poverty and confusion, yet when some of those same children have babies born into the same conditions 15 or 16 years later, we BLAME them . None of us were too smart at that age.

OP - i suspect you have a good parental role model yourself? This makes all the difference IMO. I think SureStart was on the right path, bar the free books to all.

trigglesx, that is so true. Bright sparks used to tell me to do my shopping at aldi or lidl but there wasn't one in walking distance! so I just had to shop really carefully at Tesco because that was the supermarket near to me.

Marge We're lucky now as we have a car, but when we didn't and lived in a small village, we had to have Tesco delivery via online. It wasn't realistic to make a couple trips into town to get everything needed for the week, and each trip into town added another £4+ to the grocery bill for the bus fare, as I could only buy what I could carry home on the bus (too far to walk). Plus sometimes the bus just didn't show - so I could be waiting an hour for a bus - makes it difficult to buy frozen or even refrigerated food if you might be waiting outside in the summer in the heat. And a taxi was out of the question - too expensive!! There was a Lidls, but again, bus ride away, so same situation.

And we were getting by money-wise. I can't imagine how much of a struggle it must be for those that are in an even tighter money situation. I suppose that their highest priority may not be books and such.