to be annoyed that being in the lowest socio-economic group seems to be an accepted excuse for bad parenting

[MummaEss]

I am constantly seeing reports in the media about how children from backgrounds of relative poverty are entering school without the necessary skills, have little or no access to books in their early years, are often hungry and generally ill equipped for school. In such reports the fact that these children are often the ones entitled to free school meals seems to change the focus of the issue from one of bad parenting to the problem being a symptom of being poor.

Now, I do understand that the pure statistics do indeed show a clear correlation between these problems and social grouping but I do not think that this should automatically mean that the families being financially poor is the problem. The problem is horrendously bad parenting.

I have raised my girls on a shoestring. I have been a single mum for years, have done my time on income support and now work for minimum wage yet I still managed to teach my girls the basics in personal hygiene and manners before they started school. They always had shelves full of books bought from charity shops and we regularly visited the library for free. Being hard up for cash has no effect on how you teach your children. Yes, I couldn't afford to send mine to ballet lessons or piano lessons but teaching good behavior, manners, bedtime, potty training etc is free and books and reading can be also.

So, AIBU to be annoyed and concerned that us poor people are getting bad press here?. Many of us manage to raise well rounded and educated children despite our financial dire straights and that those who don't can blame only their bad parenting and not their 'poverty'.

You're correct that it's not stellar parenting, but sometimes, even with the best will in the world, these parents are muddling on in pretty much the same way as the rest of their lives from birth. Their literacy may be poor and their budgeting skills may be as crap as their cooking skills and knowledge of nutrition. The parents may emotionally be little more than kids themselves or living in families where conflict has more of a routine to it than anything else.

Some of these kids may come from families where parents are in ill health, physically or mentally.

I get you, but I also think you clearly had vision and ambition for your children that you got from somewhere, despite being poor. In my case, poverty meant both my parents left school at 13, still have significant literacy problems and the fact that poverty and lack of education curtailed their lives so much was passed onto me and my siblings. It was less that we couldn't afford music lessons, or indeed decent food, more that it had never occurred to them that normal houses should contain books, or that a clever ish child like me might do better to be sent somewhere other the local failing school, or that university might be an option, via grants and scholarships.

I agree with the OP.

YANBU.

Children from all walks of life get abused or mistreated or neglected we just hear more about the ones from poorer homes because they are not as protected from scrutiny.

I think perhaps given your circumstances you are being slightly over-sensitive about this issue

I don't think any reasonable person thinks that just because you are poor you are automatically a bad parent and would take with a pinch of salt any tabloids that try to perpetuate this myth. However, there is the recognition that poverty takes away certain choices. Everybody's circumstances are different and I would never judge or want to walk in somebody's shoes who has to daily struggle with necessities such as feeding and keeping kids warm and clothed. Things like manners certaintly don't require any money but unexpected bills on a stretched budget can be the difference between kids having a breakfast and being dressed in proper uniform

Those in poor households are more likely to have parents who themselves suffered from poor parenting therefore they don't know any better. I'm sure this has been analysed to death. I don't think it's poorer households are more scrutinised.
Yes OP you've done well (I myself have escaped the poverty trap) but that doesn't mean that other people are equipped with your skills.

Hi mumma. This is a subject that is very close to my heart. I grew up in a very working class family on a council estate which was rife with heroin. My parents left school with no qualifications. But they could read, Dad did work (in a job he hated but he stuck it out for 32 years because it paid the rent and bills). My parents were determined that myself and my sisters would have more.

I am now a teacher and I work very closely with children from vulnerable families and children who receive the pupil premium (and are at risk of under achieving). There are no easy answers, no straight forward reasons why children are provided with such bad parenting.

But, with risking a flaming, I will share one observation with you. In all the years I have been in the job, the most vulnerable children come from families with the most vulnerable parents. They are vulnerable because of the crap start in life they had. And, the big issue... No one tells them that they are getting it wrong.

The professionals have to provide continual support, papering over the massive cracks. Such parents are usually given chance after chance and nothing ever really improves. Because no one actually takes the time to show them how to parent in a positive way.

There are great organisations such as Homestart which are facing a massive funding crisis. Parenting courses such as Strengthening Families are great for those prepared to listen to others and do the work.

I think there are not very good, neglectful, selfish parents in all social classes.

Poverty is a massive stress on families.
Adults who have learning difficulties, drug/alcohol problems, mental health problems, have been neglected or abused themselves as children are more likely to be living in poverty than those who are resilient and had good childhoods themselves.
Children born to parents who have limited capacity to parent well are more likely to enter school with the problems mentioned, to be hungry or neglected.

So it's not as clear cut as poverty = poor parenting, despite what the media like to portray! But there is a clear link between poverty and social issues.

Finola1step you have put more clearly than I did my exact concern. The problem is the parenting skills or lack there of. I worry that those in charge think that by raising the living standards and available cash to these families the problems will be resolved. Clearly they are in need of guidance and education, not more money. Money, in fact, has nothing to do with it at all.

I am glad that some of you agree with me, it just grates on me every time I see another free school meals type story.

You have a lot to be proud of OP, YANBU. Since having kids my admiration for strong single mothers has gone stellar

You are defensive and missing the point. Pointing out reality isn't a slight on you.

Actually I think money has a lot to do with it, but you're right that it isn't the full extent of the problem.

I'm sure this has been analysed to death. I don't think it's poorer households are more scrutinised

People are much less likely to report or apply concerns to children from none deprived backgrounds for exactly the same behaviour,its human nature.

Why do you think at your booking appointment one of the social questions you get asked is income related.

I've even seen threads on here where posters have made an assumption based on house description and said something would be ok yet its about stuff that I've attended cp meetings about when people from poorer families have done the same.

Well, I see what you mean, I just hesitate to load more criticism on 'the poor' though.

Although I have had not money for most of the last decade (things much better now) I have never made bad choices so my children haven't suffered from our being poor. In fact, they have had more exercise as they have walked miles!

But we had my parents to go back to when the whole poor thing got tiring. I had a five year recovery plan! which took 7 years, but never mind. I am here now. Or there now. I do think that things are harder when you've no role models, no hope, no plan.........

But without a doubt, being a single mother on a shoestring is tough, and the amount of disdain heaped on us by the media and by politicians and even sometimes by shallow insecure women in our own circles is shocking.

I completely agree with you op and with Finola.

Erm I thought that it was not so much that being poor causes these issues, as that poorer people are likely to be less intelligent, less educated, and generally to rely on the way they were raised as guidance to how they raise their own children, because they've never been exposed to any other school of thought.

It isn;t the poverty that causes the issues, it's the issues that cause the poverty.

sockreturning I got more snide comments from m/wives and hvs than any other individuals I have ever come across. Not because dh and I were doing drugs and were on benefits but because that question resulted in a response that meant we were professionals with a very nice address.

Married were those questions relating to child protection issues or just snide?

just snide - what's your dh's occupation; what's yours; aren't you lucky then - and don't think your baby will be better than anyone else's. If they'd asked about child protection I'd have shown them the door and made a formal complaint tbh. In fact I did make a formal complaint about the hv.

oh yes, and I've just remembered "And is this baby planned? Does this baby have the same father as your DS?" What did they expect me to say "no I got knocked up on a one night stand after my second died shortly after birth at 27 weeks - just six months ago". "Oh did you want it, the booking midwife said". No wonder children are abused when their lives are so unilaterally dismissed across the board and before they are born even by professionals. It still makes me angry and my dd is 15 now. Grrrrrrr.

"Is it poverty causing poor parenting (in some cases)?

Does being a certain type of person who is a poor parent also make you more likely to end up in poverty? (But of course, all types of people can be poor parents and also anyone can end up in poverty)"

That and also does poverty adversely affect parenting, does it adversely affect the choices you can make for your children, the opportunities you can give them and does being a single parent working part time for minimum wage (a significant number of people entitled to free school meals are) while trying to also bring up children in poverty affect things like time and energy available to actually parent?