To want to make myself believe in god?

[HopHopHopSkip]

I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

but we're going precisely nowhere in many parts of the world - in fact, we're going back. You present something quite domestic, eurocentric, hih?

I think my vision of turning aside from our own concerns and pouring our efforts, as well as our money, into the problems outside in the wider world was more of a global concern, not necessarily domestic - though of course there are domestic problems too that could do with being addressed. I'm delighted the Archbishop has claimed war on loan sharks - at last! the church stands up and gets on with things at the grassroots where it matters!...

..instead of endlessly discussing semantics. So negligent, when there is so much suffering that it really wouldn't take much to alleviate with a bit of application - sometimes on our very doorstep if we bothered to notice.

Thing is, OP, that wanting something which you think other people have, you need to be careful you know what it is that you're wanting. Some people who subscribe to a mythology and have an imaginary friend are made happier by it, but sometimes that happiness is down to having found some kind of official justification for their own failings such as misogyny, homophobia and racism - 'Oh look, it's fine for me to hate and feel superior to [other class of people because my imaginary friend doesn't like them either.' Sometimes people imagine a friend that's a complete arsehole, either because they are arseholes themselves or because they have lousy self-esteem and therefore want to believe in an imaginary friend who will control and punish them - and take comfort from the idea that their imaginary friend will be even more horrible to everyone else. Happiness doesn't come from adopting and clinging to an entirely irrational belief. The point and purpose of all the superstitions is a matter of keeping people, particularly women, in their place. The root of all this crap is men's fear and envy of women's ability to carry and birth babies, so all the superstitions have a starting point of 'WQomen are inferior, it's up to men to decide when babies are born.'

I used my country yes but I can find examples of improved life quality elsewhere...

"examination of skeletons found at archaeological sites suggests that as many as 15% of prehistoric humans met a violent death at the hands of another person. (For comparison, in the first half of the twentieth century, the two world wars caused a death rate in Europe of not much more than 3%.)"
Read more at <a class="break-all" href="//www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/are-humans-getting-better-#TjzsuZl2KkxR3341.99" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/are-humans-getting-better-#TjzsuZl2KkxR3341.99

WMittens
Here is a little of what I'd researched (Note, a search engine will re-order the top hits over time and so I would suggest you use the same key words for current reference (for your own peace of mind if you decide to check it out for yourself).

I have included this for the moment (as you asked) but do not wish to hijack someone else's thread so would suggest we private message on any further discussion on the topic.

1. Egypt would never again rule over nations
Bible prophecy: Ezekiel 29:15
Prophecy written: Between 593-571 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: Since the time of Ezekiel about 2500 years ago
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In Ezekiel 29:15, the prophet says that Egypt would recover from a desolation (perhaps Babylon's attack about 2600 years ago), but that it would never again rule over other nations. Up until the time of Ezekiel, Egypt had been a world power for centuries, dominating many nations, including Israel. But for most of the past 2500 years, Egypt has been controlled by foreign powers, including the Romans, Ottomans and Europeans. Today, Egypt is again an independent nation, and it has always been an impressive nation. But since the time of Ezekiel, it no longer rules over other nations.
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Proof: yahoo word search ?Egypt rule the world history?:

Egypt's Past, Recorded History and Famous People of Egyptian History ...... people that made Egypt one of the world's most powerful countries thousands of ... The Greco-Roman Period - Egypt ruled by Greek Kings and Roman Emperors
www.touregypt.net/kids/history.htm - Cached

History of Egypt... by the history of the Ancient Egyptian civilisation: Egypt was the world's first ... Under the rule of King Menes, the First of Egypt's Pharaohs, its ... goingegypt.com/pharaoh/history-of-egypt/history-of-egypt.html - Cached

Ancient & Classic Cultures - Homework Center - Multnomah County Library ... of World History ... The Carnegie Museum of Natural History's Egypt exhibit ... What were the rules and regulations of fighting, fighting styles and what ... www.multcolib.org/homework/anchsthc.html - 94k - Cached

2. Edom would be toppled and humbled
Bible prophecy: Jeremiah 49:16
Prophecy written: Sometime between 626-586 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: About 100 BC
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In Jeremiah 49:16, the prophet said that Edom, a long-time enemy of Israel, would be destroyed. Edom's capital city, Petra, was carved out of a mountain side and had great natural defenses. Nonetheless, it was destroyed and the kingdom of Edom no longer exists. Today, Petra is part of Jordan. The city was conquered by the Romans in the year 106 AD but flourished again shortly after that. A rival city, Palmyra, eventually took most of the trade away from Petra and Petra began to decline. Petra gradually fell into ruin.
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Proof: yahoo word search ?Edom Petra history?

Petra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2 History. 2.1 Roman rule. 2.2 Religion. 2.3 Decline. 3 Petra today. 4 Media appearances ... Sea scrolls as a prominent Edom site most closely describing Petra. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra,_Jordan - 74k - Cached

The Petra Great Temple | History Petra Great Temple Excavations ... A Brief History of Petra ... time the Nabataeans migrated into Edom, forcing the Edomites to move into southern Palestine. ...www.brown.edu/Departments/Anthropology/Petra/excavations/history.html - Cached

Petra ... to the north of Petra making the settled history of the area roughly ... 1200 BC, the area was inhabited by the Edomites, Edom is the Aramaic word ...www.petranationalfoundation.org/history.html - Cached

3. The Jews would avenge the Edomites
Bible prophecy: Ezekiel 25:14
Prophecy written: Between 593-571 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: About 100 BC
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In Ezekiel 25:14, the prophet said that the Jews would one day take vengeance on Edom, a nation that had often warred with the Jews. When Ezekiel delivered this prophecy, he and many other Jews were living as captives in Babylon. They didn't have control of their own country, let alone anyone else's. But, about 400 years later, Jews regained independence for Jerusalem and the surrounding area during the "Hasmonaean Era or Period." During this time, the Jewish priest-king John Hyrcanus I defeated the Edomites. According to the Columbia Encyclopedia, Fifth Edition: "Edomite history was marked by continuous hostility and warfare with Jews? At the end of the second century B.C., they were subdued by Hasmonaean priest-king John Hyrcanus?"
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Proof: yahoo word search ?Edom defeated by Jews?

Edom - LoveToKnow 1911 7), but after his defeat by Jehoash of Israel there is a gap and the situation ... Subsequently Edom is execrated for revengeful attacks upon the Jews, and its ...www.1911encyclopedia.org/Edom - Cached

Edom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... the Edomites in the Tanakh until their defeat by King Saul of Israel in the late ... the Jews.[27] For this reason the Prophets denounced Edom violently.[28] ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idumeans - 82k - Cached

JewishEncyclopedia.com - EDOX, IDUMEAEdom is the name which was given to Esau, the first-born son of Isaac, on the day he sold his ... the Edomites until their defeat by Saul four hundred ...www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=45&letter=E&search=Edom - Cached

4. Nineveh's army officers would desert
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Bible prophecy: Nahum 3:17
Prophecy written: About 614 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 612 BC
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In Nahum 3:17, the prophet said Nineveh's army officers would flee rather than fight. Babylonian records claim that Assyrian army members did flee from the battle.

Nahum 3:17:

Your guards are like locusts, your officials like swarms of locusts that settle in the walls on a cold day-- but when the sun appears they fly away, and no one knows where.

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Proof: yahoo word search ?Assyrian army flee?

Assyria - Crystalinks... Assyrian governors Esarhaddon had appointed over Egypt were obliged to flee the restive populace, and while leading another army to ... www.crystalinks.com/assyria.html - Cached

Neo-Assyrian Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?The Assyrian forces at this time became a standing army, that by successive ... Assyrian governors Esarhaddon had appointed over Egypt were obliged to flee the ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Assyrian - 106k - Cached

Early history of Assyria Forced to flee to Babylonia, Shamshi-Adad V (823-811) finally managed to regain ... The commander of the Assyrian army in the west crowned himself king in the city ...www.angelfire.com/nt/Gilgamesh/assyrian.html - 91k - Cached

5. Nineveh would be destroyed, permanently
Bible prophecy: Nahum 3:19
Prophecy written: About 614 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 612 BC
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In Nahum 3:19 (and 1:9), the prophet said that Nineveh, which was the Assyrian Empire's capital and perhaps the most powerful city of the ancient world, would suffer a wound that would never heal.

In 612 BC (about 2600 years ago), a coalition of Babylonians, Scythians and Medes conquered the heavily fortified city. According to the Bible, Nineveh was to be punished for the empire's inhumane treatment of Israel.

It is worth noting that recovery would not have been unprecedented. The Assyrian empire had conquered Babylon many years beforehand, but Babylon was able to recover from that defeat, regain its power, and defeat Assyria. But, as Nahum had accurately prophesied some 2600 years ago, Nineveh never recovered.
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Proof: yahoo word search ?Nineveh destroyed?

Nineveh: Definition from Answers.com Nineveh An ancient city of Assyria on the Tigris River opposite the site of ... the north And destroy Assyria, And He will make Nineveh a desolation, Parched ...www.answers.com/topic/nineveh - 122k - Cached

The fall of Nineveh: introduction ... would not rest until he had destroyed the capitals of Assyria: the religious ... In the Fall of Nineveh Chronicle, which is translated here, we can read about ...www.livius.org/ne-nn/nineveh/nineveh01.html - Cached

Nineveh ... destroyed in the fall of the empire (Footnote 511-4) the name of Nineveh (Syriac, ... Nineveh proper was only one of a group of cities and royal residences whose ... www.1902encyclopedia.com/N/NIN/nineveh.html - Cached

6. Ninevites would be drunk in their final hours
Bible prophecy: Nahum 1:10
Prophecy written: About 614 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 612 BC
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In Nahum 1:10 and 3:11, the prophet said that during the final hours of the attack on Nineveh, the Ninevites would be drunk. There is evidence that this prophecy was fulfilled.
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Proof: According to the ancient historian Diodorus Siculus: "The Assyrian king gave much wine to his soldiers. Deserters told this to the enemy, who attacked that night."

Siculus compiled his historical works about 600 years after the fall of Nineveh.

100prophecies.org/page11.htm

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7. Nineveh would be destroyed by fire
Bible prophecy: Nahum 3:15
Prophecy written: About 614 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 612 BC
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In Nahum 3:15, the prophet said that Nineveh would be damaged by fire. Archaeologists unearthed the site during the 1800s and found a layer of ash covering the ruins. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica: "?Nineveh suffered a defeat from which it never recovered. Extensive traces of ash, representing the sack of the city by Babylonians, Scythians, and Medes in 612 BC, have been found in many parts of the Acropolis. After 612 BC the city ceased to be important?"
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Proof: yahoo word search ?Nineveh fire?
Nineveh - Conservapedia Nineveh (nin'ē-ve נינוה, nīnewēh) was the last capital of the ... BC, and was probably destroyed by fire when Nineveh fell in 606 BC, sharing the same fate. ...www.conservapedia.com/Nineveh - Cached

Library of Ashurbanipal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Nineveh was destroyed in 612 BC by a ... Polastron, Lucien X.: "Books On Fire: The Tumultuous Story Of The World's Great ... Nineveh Tablet Collection ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Ashurbanipal - Cached

Destruction Of Nineveh | Assyrian Empire | Bible Prophecy Of EzekielDestruction Of Nineveh - the ancient capital of the Assyrian Empire was ... Nineveh would be unprotected because "fire shall devour the bars of your gates" (Nah...www.biblelandhistory.com/bible-history/nineveh-destruction.html - Cached

8. Ninevites would be wiped out
Bible prophecy: Nahum 1:14
Prophecy written: About 614 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 612 BC
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In Nahum 1:14, the prophet said Nineveh would have no descendants to carry on the prestige of Nineveh. Nineveh's destruction in 612 BC marked a permanent end to the Assyrian Empire. The city itself never again rose to any significant importance. Today, Nineveh is an archaeological site in Iraq. -

Nahum 1:14: The Lord has given a command concerning you, [Nineveh]: "You will have no descendants to bear your name. I will destroy the carved images and cast idols that are in the temple of your gods. I will prepare your grave, for you are vile."
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Proof: Yahoo Word Search ?Nineveh today?
Nineveh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... see Nineveh (disambiguation) ... Today, Nineveh's location is marked by two large mounds, ... Today, there is little evidence of these old excavations other ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineveh - 76k - Cached

Nineveh definition | Dictionary.com Definition of Nineveh at Dictionary.com with free online dictionary, ... Fall of nineveh. Excavation at ninev... history of nineveh 793 bc. nineveh today ...dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nineveh?jss=0 - 110k - Cached

"Show the things that are to come hereafter that we may know that ye are gods..." Isaiah 41:23. Here God challenges all other religions claiming to be the truth to prove that they are from God by predicting the future. Nobody can correctly predict the future on every guess. The Bible is the only book in the world that correctly predicts the future hundreds of times, without making any mistakes. No other book does this. The Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim writings contain no cases of clearly fulfilled prophecies. This proves that they are not from God. Any man can write a book with moral teachings. Only God can write a book that always correctly foretells the future, as the Bible does.
Four tests to prove that a prophecy is from God: His prediction must come true. "If the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken..." Deuteronomy 18:22. Was the prophecy far enough before the predicted event to exclude chances of human guesswork? Is the prediction ambiguous, vague or capable of several explanations? What is the significance of predictive prophecy?His message had to be according to God and His Word. "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20.

Thousands of Prophecies fulfilled with 100% accuracy. Only God can write a book that always correctly foretells the future, as the Bible does. Its proves God's existence, as the mind behind the Bible. It proves that the Bible is God's inspired word, without error. It proves that Yahushua Ha Mashiyach (Jesus Christ) is God, whom the Old Testament predicts. It proves all other Bible doctrines to be true, giving us a strong foundation to base our life on. The true prophet presents a message of conviction and repentance, calling the people to obedience and righteousness. Consider the following examples of fulfilled Bible prophecies under the headings of Nations, Cities and Individuals.

www.verities.org/evidence.html

PROPHECY FULFILLED OF NATIONS, CITIES and INDIVIDUALS

1. Nations

Date Made

Date   Fulfilled	Prophecy

2000 BC 1948 AD Israel would become a great nation. "I will make of thee a great nation." Genesis 12:1-3.
992 BC 975 BC Israel would split into 10 tribes and 2 tribes. "I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give 10 tribes to thee (Jeroboam)". I Kings 11:31.

607 BC 536 BC Israel would be captive in Babylon for 70 years. Jer. 25:11-14. "These nations shall serve the King of Babylon seventy years."
1451 BC 70 AD Israel would be scattered among the nations of the world. "The Lord shall scatter thee from ..... one end of the earth to the other." Deuteronomy 28:64. This was fulfilled in 70 AD when Titus the Roman General destroyed Jerusalem, killing one million Jews, and taking 100,000 Israelites as slaves.
1451 BC 100 AD Israel would become a byword among all nations. "Thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations where the Lord shall lead thee." Deuteronomy 28:37. People refer to someone who holds his money tightly as a Jew.

1451 BC 70 AD
1939 AD
Israel would be persecuted among the nations. Hitler killed six million Jews in World War II. "Thy life shall hang in doubt before thee, and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none
assurance of thy life." Deuteronomy 28:66.

1491 BC
607 BC
2004 AD Israel would not be completely destroyed, but retain her identity.
"I will not destroy them utterly...." Leviticus 26:44. "I will not make a full end of thee". Jeremiah 46:28.

712 BC
33 AD Israel would reject her Messiah. "He was despised and rejected of men; .... we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:3.

538 BC 33 AD Israel would kill her Messiah. ".shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself." Daniel 9:26.

538 BC 70 AD Israel's city of Jerusalem and the Temple will be destroyed just after Israel rejects her Messiah. "The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary." Daniel 9:26.

search results

1. Siege of Jerusalem (70) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   o Siege|
   o Destruction of Jerusalem|
   o Perceptions|
   o In later art
   The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 AD was a decisive event in the First Jewish-Roman War. It was followed by the fall of Masada in 73 AD. The Roman army, led by the future Emperor Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander as...
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Jerusalem - 59k - Cached

2. When Was Jerusalem Destroyed?
   After a siege of about a year, Jerusalem was finally destroyed in 586 BC ... ( b8) ... He does not say that these seventy years started when Jerusalem was destroyed. ...
   www.2001translation.com/607.htm - Cached

3. Wars between the Jews and Romans
   ... to allow the Jews in Jerusalem to destroy themselves, had been successful. ... the Jewish people and destroyed the city of Jerusalem, something which none of ...
   www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/jwar04.html - Cached

587 BC 1948 AD Israel would return to Palestine in the latter years just before Christ's Second Coming. Ezekiel 37:11-14; 38:1-39:29. "I will gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water on you ..... " Ezekiel 36:24,25
2. Israel and Palestine
israel, palestine, west bank, gaza, olive picking, anti-semitic, settlements, ... The Association for One Democratic State in Palestine Israel ...
israel-palestine.janineroberts.com - 86k - Cached
3. BBC NEWS | Middle East | Country profiles | Country profile: Israel and ...
Key facts, figures and dates ... mandate of Palestine and the creation of the state of Israel in the years ... Palestine News Agency - Wafa - official, in ...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/803257.stm - 96k - Cached
4. History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
Very easy-to-understand maps of the Arab-Israeli Conflict and the changing maps of Palestine and Israel ... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West ...
www.masada2000.org/historical.html - Cached

714 BC 1967 AD

Israel will be militarily superior to Egypt. "The land of Judah shall be a terror to the land of Egypt." Isaiah 19 

1. Israel changes the facts on the ground, militarily and diplomatically ...
   It is no longer merely Hamas's antagonist; it is its unquestioned military superior. ... Egypt, which once openly tolerated the tunnels, will no doubt clamp ...
   theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090119.wcogaza20/BNStory/... - 70k

2. MWC News - A Site Without Borders - - Is Israeli Policy Crazy?
   Israel doesn't seem to understand that superior power doesn't buy security as ... and 2006, in which Israel won militarily but ultimately lost politically, one ...
   mwcnews.net/content/view/27641&Itemid=1 - 54k - Cached

3. Myths & Facts - The Arms Balance
   "Israel is militarily superior to its Arab neighbors in every area and has the ... "Egypt is no longer a military threat since signing a peace treaty with Israel. ...
   www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf23.html - Cached
   search results

4. Myths & Facts Online - The Arms Balance
   "Israel is militarily superior to its neighbors in every area and has maintained ... "Egypt is no longer a military threat since signing a peace treaty with Israel. ...
   www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths2/ArmsBalance.html - 54k - Cached

5. EDOM and its capital city, Petra. Esau, Jacob's brother founded Edom in 1800 BC (Genesis 36:8). 350 years later in 1450 BC Edom refused to help Israel pass through her land (Numbers 20). Edom delighted in persecuting Israel. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joel, Amos and Obadiah condemned Edom. Petra was Edom's strongly fortified capital built into a rock cliff, accessible only by a very narrow entrance. This made them feel invincible. Mohammed captured Petra in 636 AD. It then became desolate. These events are prophesied for Edom.

Date Prophecy

713 BC Edom to become a Desolation."Thorns shall come up in her palaces"Isaiah 34:13

713 BC Wild animals will inhabit Edom."It shall be a habitation of dragons" Is.34:13-15

713 BC Commerce will cease in Edom?None shall pass through it for ever.' Isaiah 34:10

600 BC Spectators will be astonished in Petra. "Edom shall be a desolation: every one that goes by it shall be astonished." Jeremiah 49:17
600 BC Never to be populated again. "No man shall abide there." Jeremiah 49:18.

590 BC Israel would conquer Edom. "I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel." Ezekiel. This seemed a crazy prediction because Israel was then captive in Babylon, yet 400 years later Judas Maccabeus invaded and killed thousands of Edomites.
587 BC Edom to have a bloody history. "Blood shall pursue thee." Ezekiel 35:6.
590 BC Edom to become desolate as far as the city of Teman. "I will make it desolate from Teman." Ezekiel 25:13.

3. BABYLON Babylon was the capital of the ancient world. It was a centre of trade, learning and culture. Babylon had four walls each 14 miles long, covering 196 square miles, surrounded by a 30 foot wide moat. The walls were 311 feet high, 87 feet wide, with 100 gates of solid brass. 250 watchtowers extended 100 feet higher than the walls. While the Babylonians were holding a drunken feast, Cyrus the Persian had diverted the Euphrates river away from its course underneath the walls of Babylon, and marched his troops along the dry riverbed. He then took the city in 536 BC. Xerxes later plundered Babylon, as did Alexander the Great's troops. Trajan the Roman Emperor visited Babylon in 116 AD describing it as "mounds and legends of mounds." Layard writes of Babylon: "No Arab tents, no sheepfolds, and overrun by desert animals." Consider the following fulfilled prophecies concerning Babylon: These prophecies were given in 713 BC: Babylon will be like Sodom and Gomorrah. "Babylon shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." Isaiah 13:19. The Medes and Persians would conquer Babylon (536 BC). Isaiah 13:17;45:1-4. Babylon shall never be inhabited. Isaiah 13:20. Arab tents will not be pitched there. Isaiah 13:20. Sheepfolds will not be there. Isaiah 13:20. Desert creatures will infest the ruins. Isaiah 13:21. ) Babylon will be covered with swamps of water. Isaiah 14:23. Part of Babylon today lies under silt and under the water table. The ruins of Nebukhadnnesar's palace is on displayed in Iraq for tourists

1. MEDO-PERSIA. Daniel 8:1-8, 20-22. These prophecies were given in 553BC. God tells Daniel of a series of battles that would occur 220 years later between Medo- Persia and Greece. Alexander the Great of Greece, pictured by a He-goat with a great horn (Alexander himself) severely crushes Darius III army of Medo-Persia (pictured by a ram with two horns). This occurred in three battles: Granicus (334BC), Issus (333BC) and Guagamela (331BC) which took place beside a river. "The ram .... having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia." Daniel 8:20. "The rough goat is the king of Grecia, and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king." (Alexander). Daniel 8:21.

Notice the following aspects of this prophecy: The Ram (Medio-Persia) pushes west, north, south. Daniel 8:4. This prediction defines the area of influence of Medo-Persia from 536-330BC. One horn (Persia) was higher or stronger than the other (Medes). Daniel 8:3. History proved Persia to be the stronger partner in the alliance. The He-goat (Greece) came from the West. Daniel 8:5. Greece is west of Medo-Persia. The He-goat (Greece) crushed the Ram (Medo-Persia). "He smote the ram, and brake his two horns." Daniel 8:6,7. The battle took place at a river. "He came to the ram which had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river ." Daniel 8:6 5. GREECE. Daniel 8:8,21,22. These events were prophesied in 553BC and fulfilled in 331BC, 222 years later. Notice these further accurate predictions: Alexander, after conquering Medo-Persia, went on to conquer all the ancient world across to India. "The he-goat waxed very great." Daniel 8:8,22. Alexander, at the age of 32 drank himself to death at the peak of his strength. "When he was strong, the great horn was broken." Daniel 8:22. After Alexander's death, the Greek empire was divided into four smaller powers, each ruled by one of his Generals. "Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power." Daniel 8:8,22. The four empires into which Alexander's empire was divided were Greece, Asia Minor, Syria and Egypt. Alexander's kingdom was not given to his children but to his generals. "A mighty king shall stand up......his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided to the four winds of heaven, and not to his posterity..." Daniel 11:3,4. 6. ROME . Daniel 2:40,41. "The fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron ..... it shall break in pieces and bruise ....the kingdom shall be divided." Daniel 2:40,41. Notice the following prophecies about Rome: Rome, the fourth kingdom was as strong as iron. Rome ruled from England to Babylon, bringing peace, roads and strong government like an iron rule. Rome was the Empire ruling when Jesus Christ the Messiah first came, "shall Messiah be cut off........and the people (Romans)....." Daniel 9:26. Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple in 70AD. ".....shall Messiah be cut off...... and the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come (Antichrist) shall destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (Temple)." Daniel 9:26. Rome was divided in 395AD into the Western Empire ruled by Rome, and the Eastern Empire ruled by Byzantine (or Constantinople), pictured by the two legs of the image in Daniel 2. "The kingdom shall be divided." Daniel 2:41.

1. EGYPT. Ezekiel 29:1-15. God promised that he would punish Pharaoh of Egypt because he claimed to be a god and to have created the Nile river. "Thus saith the Lord God: Behold I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt ..... which hath said: ?My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.'" Ezekiel 29:2,9. Notice these predictions that God made concerning Egypt. Egypt would not be inhabited for 40 years but would be desolate. "I will make Egypt utterly waste and desolate from the tower of Syene to the border of Ethiopia ..... Neither shall it be inhabited forty years." Ezekiel 29:10-12.

This prediction was made in 588 BC. In 579 BC, Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt then deported the Egyptians to other nations from 576 BC until they returned in 536 BC. Egyptians would return to Egypt after 40 years. "Egypt...shall be desolate forty years." 12 "Neither shall it be inhabited forty years." v.11. "At the end of forty years will I gather the Egyptians from the people where they were scattered & will cause them to return to the land of Pathros (South Egypt)" Ezekiel 29:13,14. Egypt will be a base kingdom: "they shall be there a base kingdom." (Ezekiel 29:14) Egypt has been a base kingdom ever since 536 BC. iv) Egypt will be afraid of Israel. This is true today ever since Israel defeated Egypt in the six-day war in 1967. "The land of Judah shall be a terror to Egypt." Isaiah 19:17. II. CITIES. Four main cities have 30 detailed prophetic predictions given about them:

1. TYRE. Destruction of TYRE was foretold in Ezekiel 26:1-14 in 590 BC. Ezekiel 26 contains six prophecies for Tyre that have been fulfilled. If Ezekiel had looked at Tyre in his day and made these predictions in human wisdom, there would have been only one chance in 75,000,000 of them all coming true. Nebuchadnezzar will destroy the mainland city of Tyre. 26:7-11. "I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon." (27:7). This was prophesied in 590 BC.

Nebuchadnezzar laid siege to Tyre four years after the prophecy was made. After a 13 year siege (586-573 BC), Nebuchadnezzar broke the gates down. He found the city empty. The people had fled to a 140 acre island 800 metres off the coast & fortified a city there. The mainland city was destroyed in 573 BC as foretold, but the island city of Tyre still remained. "I will cause many nations to come against thee.as waves." Ezekiel 26:3. Invaders who attacked Tyre were Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander, Moslems and Crusaders. "I will scrape her dust from her ...like the top of a rock." 26:4. When island Tyre refused to submit to Alexander, he demolished the old city on the mainland. With the debris of the old city, he scraped it off the ground like you scrape dust off a rock, pushing it into the water. He thus built a causeway 60 metres wide by 800 metres long out to the island of Tyre, where he laid siege to it, conquered it, and destroyed the island city in 332 BC. The causeway still remains and old Tyre is as flat as a rock. This prophecy was given 258 years before its fulfilment. "Fishermen will spread their nets over the site." Ezekiel 26:5,14. Fishermen today dry their nets on the rocks of old mainland Tyre. "They shall throw the city debris into the water." When Alexander's engineers built the causeway, they laid the stone, timber and dust remains of old Tyre into the water. Ez. 26:12. The city will never be rebuilt. "Thou shalt be built no more." 26:14. Old Tyre has been bare as a rock for 2500 years as God said, even though 10 million gallons of fresh water supply the site daily with enough water for a city. The city has not been rebuilt even today.

1. JERUSALEM

Yahushua Ha Mashiyach made the following predictions about Jerusalem: Not one stone of Herod's temple would be left standing on another. "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Matthew 24:1,2. The Roman army finally in September 70 AD stormed the walls of Jerusalem through the Antonia fortress. According to Josephus, they killed one million Jews and took 100,000 Jews captive as slaves. A soldier dropped a torch in the Temple setting it on fire. This melted the gold in the Temple, which flowed into the cracks in the Temple foundations. The Romans dug up the Temple's foundations thus destroying the Temple. The Roman soldiers fulfilled Christ's prophecy of not one stone of the Temple being left standing on another. Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies in a siege. "When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Luke 21:20. The only way of safety was to flee Jerusalem when you see the armies. "Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out, and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto." Luke 21:21. The Roman army surrounded Jerusalem for five days and its troops battered at the walls. Had not Luke in 53AD recorded Jesus' warning to leave Jerusalem when armies surrounded it? How could they escape if armies were all around the walls? Josephus the historian writes that "The Roman army retired from the city, without any reason in the world." Josephus continues: "The Jews were greatly encouraged by this, but many of the most eminent Jews then left the city." Hegessippus, another historian tells us that those leaving were Christians who knew Christ's command to flee in Luke 21:20,21. This proves that Luke wrote well before 66AD when the Roman army first came. Many Jews in Jerusalem would be killed by the sword. Luke 21:24. "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations". Many Jews would be led away captive into all nations. Luke 21:24. In the starvation of the siege women ate their children. "He shall besiege thee ..... thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters .... in the siege." Deuteronomy 28:52,57. Jerusalem would be under Gentile control until Christ returns. "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." Luke 21:24. This occurred 40 years after it was predicted, when Titus the Roman General conquered Jerusalem in 70AD. Jerusalem has been under Gentile (non Jewish) control since 70AD as prophesied by Yahushua Ha Mashiyach. Jerusalem shall be plowed as a field. In 135AD the Jews rebelled against Rome again. Hadrian the Roman General, in a three-and-a-half year war killed 580,000 Jews and ran a plough over Jerusalem, thus fulfilling Micah's prophecy written in 730BC. "Therefore shall Zion for your sakes be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps." Micah 3:12. Jews will return to Jerusalem in the end days. We all know that the Jews occupy part of Jerusalem and Israel today since 1948. "I will gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land." (Ezekiel 36:24). God predicts that Jerusalem in the end days, being occupied by Jews, will be invaded by all nation's armies. Yahushua Ha Mashiyach will then return to rescue the Jews, defeat the invading armies, and rule on earth in peace for 1000 years. "I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle ...." Zechariah 14:1-4. Jerusalem's East Gate will be Shut. Today if you visit Jerusalem's East Gate, you will notice that it is completely bricked up. Yahushua Ha Mashiyach, Who is the God of Israel, entered it on a donkey on His way to be crucified. Ezekiel wrote: "Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east and it was shut. Then Yahweh ( Elohim the Father) said unto me: ?this gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because Yahweh(Elohim the Son), the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut." Ezekiel 44:1,2. Jerusalem will be a burdensome stone for all people. "In that day I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people." (Zechariah 12:3). This prophecy has been fulfilled today because the Palestinian Muslim Arab conflict with Israel over Jerusalem is a very difficult problem to solve.

1. JERICHO.

Predicted in Joshua 6:26 (1451BC), and fulfilled in I Kings 16:34 (925BC). After the destruction of Jericho in Joshua's time, 1451BC, Joshua makes an amazing threefold prophecy about Jericho: "Cursed be the man .... that builds this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it." Joshua 6:26. Jericho would be rebuilt by a man with at least two sons. The builder's oldest son would die when the city foundations were laid. The builder's youngest son would die when the city and it's gates were finished. would intend to fulfil this prophecy. "In his (Ahab's) days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation in Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates in his youngest son Segub according to the Word of the Lord which he spake by Joshua." Unger writes: "The rebuilding of Jericho is confirmed by archaeological diggings ..... there are no occupational levels from Joshua's time to Ahab's era, when small ruins from the 10th century BC point to Hiel's rebuilding the site." [Ungers Bible Handbook, p.220]

1. NINEVEH.

Predicted in Nahum (713BC) and fulfilled in 614BC. God spared wicked Nineveh in 862BC at Jonah's preaching. At this time, archaeology reveals a change occurred from worshipping many gods to worshipping one god, called Nebo, the son in the Babylonian trinity. Nineveh's wall was 100 feet tall, 50 feet thick, with 15 gates and 1200 towers each 200 feet high. Nineveh was 60 miles in circumference, with a 150 foot wide moat around it. Nahum in 3:8 writes just after Thebes (No) in Egypt was destroyed by King Ashurbanipal of Assyria in 663BC. Nineveh was destroyed in 612BC with ease after a three month siege. It fell like "first ripe figs falling if shaken." (3:12). Three times Nahum predicts that Nineveh will be destroyed with a flood: 1:8 "overrunning flood" 2:6 "gates of rivers" 2:8 "like a pool of water". In 613BC the Assyrian army was away fighting Babylon, when heavy rains swelled the Euphrates River, flooding part of Nineveh and casting down four kilometres of wall length. The King, believing an ancient prophecy of the river becoming their enemy, panicked and ordered he and his palace to be burned down. Babylonians, Medes and Scythians attacked through this four kilometre gap, thus conquering Nineveh in 612BC. Twelve predictions about the destruction of Nineveh are given in Nahum 1-3. Nahum's Prophecies Historical Fulfilments. The Assyrian fortresses around Nineveh would be easily captured. 3:12. Babylonian records state that the fortified towns around Nineveh began to fall in 614BC. The besieged Ninevites would prepare bricks and mortar for emergency defence walls. 3:14. To the south of the gate, the moat is still filled with stone and mud bricks from the walls, heaped up when they were breached. The city gates would be destroyed. 3:13 The main attack came on the north-west gate. In the final hours of the attack, the Ninevites would be drunk. 1:10; 3:11 Siculus (20BC) wrote: "The Assyrian king gave much wine to his soldiers. Deserters told this to the enemy, who attacked that night." Ninevites would be destroyed by a flood. 1:8; 2:6,8. Diodorus: "In the third year of the siege heavy rains caused the river to flood part of the city and break part of the walls." Nineveh would be destroyed by fire. 1:10; 2:13; 3:15,13 The temple was burned as seen by a two inch layer of ash. Many Ninevites would be massacred. 3:3. So many were killed that the flowing stream became blood red for miles. Plundering would follow the overthrow of Nineveh. 2:9-10. They carried off much spoil, beyond counting. Its people would try to escape. 2:8. King Sardanapalus sent away his three sons and two daughters. Ninevite officers would weaken and flee. 3:17. The Assyrian army deserted the King (Babylonian Chronicle). Nineveh's idols would be destroyed. 1:14. The Ishtar goddess lay headless in Nineveh's ruins. Nineveh would never be rebuilt. 1:9,14. Many cities were rebuilt, eg. Jerusalem, but not Nineveh.

III. INDIVIDUALS.
The Bible makes detailed predictions about five main individuals. Two are mentioned by name: Josiah was predicted 350 years before he lived, and Cyrus King of Persia was predicted 175 years before he lived. How can such detailed predictions be made? God wrote the Bible, is the only possible answer.

1. JOSIAH, King of Judah was prophesied by name in 975BC by an unnamed man of God in I Kings 13:1-3 that he would burn idolatrous priests' bones on the altar at Bethel. "Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee (the altar) shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee." Those idolatrous priests burned incense on the same altar under evil King Jeroboam I of Israel.

350 years later in 624BC Josiah, a King of Judah, while cleansing Israel of pagan practices, broke down the altar and high place of King Jeroboam at Bethel. "Josiah turned himself, he spied the sepulchres that were in the mount, and sent, and took the bones out of the sepulchres, and burned them upon the altar and polluted it, according to the Word of the Lord, which the man of God proclaimed." II Kings 23:15,16. The two main predictions here are that: Josiah's name is given 350 years before the event. I Kings 13:2. Josiah's action of burning the false prophets' bones is given. Question: What is the probability of guessing these 2 prophesies? How did the Bible know them? Josiah Find out more about Josiah from The History Channel's free online encyclopedia. ... From the Hutchinson Encyclopedia of World History. ...thehistorychannel.co.uk/ site/... / Josiahc647609BC/m0008820.html - Cached The Rise of Babylon and Exile (640 BC-538 BC): OT History... of 20 in his 12th year as king (628), Josiah emerged as ruler in his own ... The tragic death of Josiah would have several consequences for Israel, both in ...www.cresourcei.org/othbabylon.html - Cached Josiah - New World Encyclopedia Josiah plays a pivotal role in the modern critical interpretation of ... "Deuteronomic History" created primarily during Josiah's reign. ... Josiah (Jan 25, ...www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Josiah - Cached

1. CYRUS, King of Persia, was predicted by name and action in Isaiah 44:28-45:4 in 712BC, that he would conquer Babylon. "That saith of Cyrus. He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, thou shalt be built, and to the Temple, thy foundation shall be laid." Isaiah 44:28. "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him .....to open before him the two-leaved gates: and the gates shall not be shut." Isaiah 45:1. Notice the following prophecies that have been fulfilled about Cyrus: Cyrus of Persia is named as the man who would conquer Babylon. Isaiah 45:1. This prophecy was made 176 years before the event occurred. The two leaved gates of Babylon shall not be shut. According to Heroditus (1:191), the double gates of Babylon were carelessly left open during the night of revelry when the city was taken. Cyrus gave permission for Jerusalem to be rebuilt and for the Temple foundation to be laid. II Chronicles 36:22,23; Ezra 1:1-4. iv) "I will give thee the treasures of darkness and the hidden riches of secret places." 45:3. God gave Cyrus possession of the treasures of darkness, which was the wealth of conquered nations. Valuables taken from nations were hidden in dark, secretly concealed, subterranean vaults. These prophecies given in 712BC were fulfilled in 536BC, 176 years later. Question: What is the probability of guessing the exact name "Cyrus" of the man who would conquer Babylon? Answer: It could not be guessed. This proves that the Bible is the Word of the allknowing, all-powerful Creator/God.

Cyrus takes Babylon (539 BCE)... 539 BCE, the Persian king Cyrus took Babylon, the ancient capital of an oriental ... of the capture of Babylon is the fact that Cyrus allowed the Jews (who were ...www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/babylon05.html - Cached Iransaga - Cyrus the Great, The Historical Account Iran:- An insight into the background, life, and achievements of Cyrus the Great ... In 540 BC Cyrus turned his attention to Babylon. ...www.art-arena.com/cyrus2.htm - Cached Cyrus takes Babylon (530 BCE) © Cyrus takes Babylon: the Nabonidus chronicle ... 539 BCE, the Persian king Cyrus took Babylon, the ancient capital of an oriental ...fontes.lstc.edu/~rklein/Doc5/nabonidus.htm - Cached

1. ALEXANDER THE GREAT. Daniel 8:1-8, 20-22 and 11:1-4. Although Daniel does not mention Alexander by name, he is clearly referred to in Daniel 8:21 as "the great horn that is between the He-goat's eyes is the first king." (Alexander).(Goat represents Greece in ancient history and a horn the ruler) Alexander crushed the Persians at the Battle of Issus in 333BC. Josephus the historian who lived from 37 to 100AD, states that when Alexander approached Jerusalem to conquer it, he was met at the gates by Jaddua the High Priest who showed him in Daniel 8:1-8, 20-22 that he as the first king of the Greek empire, would conquer the Persians. This was prophesied in 553BC, and was fulfilled in 333BC, 220 years later. Alexander was so impressed at this prophecy of a Greek conquering the Persians, that he worshipped the God of the Bible, offered sacrifices to God and spared Jerusalem. Note: Unbelieving critics who won't accept the Bible predicting the future, say that Daniel was written around 200BC which would make it after the events, as history not prophecy. This is clearly disproven by Josephus quoting Jaddua who quotes Daniel 8:1-8,20-22 to Alexander in 340BC. This proves that Daniel was written well before 340BC and is truly predictive prophecy of the supernatural God. (Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus, Book XI, Chap.8, p.244).

Alexander in Persia Alexander in Persia. Alexander was driven to launch his Asian campaigns by his firm belief that he ... Throughout his life, Alexander was encouraged by ...wso.williams.edu/~junterek/persia.htm - Cached The ten-horned beast: Alexander the Great. (10) The end of Persia home : index : ancient Persia : ancient Greece : Alexander : article by Jona Lendering ... Alexander wanted to celebrate the New Year festival as if he were ... www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander10.html - Cached Alexander the Great Philip II of Macedonia conquers Greece. His son, Alexander, conquers Persia and changes the world. ... Persia described Alexander as a member of Persia's royal ... www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch11.htm - Cached

1. JOHN THE BAPTIST. "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, prepare ye the way of Jehovah, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." Isaiah 40:3. John the Baptist is the one referred to here who prepared the way of Jesus Christ who is Jehovah God. This prophecy was made in 712BC and fulfilled around 30AD.

1. Yahushua Ha Mashiyach (JESUS CHRIST) FORETOLD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. So much is predicted about (Yahushua Ha Mashiyach ) Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that we can only give here a brief summary. We know that the Bible is the Word of God because it predicts so many details of Jesus Christ's life. Bible prophecies has proof of God authoring the Bible.

How do we know anything historically? There is no "scientific" proof that Lincoln was the president. We cannot recreate him in a laboratory or bring him back to life. We cannot reproduce the experiment. We cannot calculate an equation that tells us that he was. But we can assert with a high degree of probability that Lincoln was indeed our president and was assassinated in 1865. We do this by appealing to historical evidence. Many people saw Lincoln. We have some of his writings and even his picture, not to mention his likeness on our pennies. But none of this "proves", in a scientific sense, that Lincoln ever lived or was the president. The kind of evidence used in historical research is the same kind as that used in a court of law. In a courtroom case certain kinds of evidences are appealed to in order to determine what exactly happened, eyewitnesses are questioned, motives are examined, and physical evidence is scrutinized such as fingerprints or journal writings. It is the same kind of evidence that we appeal to in order to establish Christ's life, death, and resurrection. Granted, the evidence is not as great as that for Lincoln, nor as recent. But it is better evidence than we have that Plato ever lived, or Homer, or many historical figures that we take for granted. The Accuracy of the Biblical Records The question often arises when discussing the biblical records, "How can a document that has been copied over and over possibly be reliable? Everyone knows there are tons of errors in it." While it is true that the documents have been copied many times, we often have misconceptions about how they were transmitted. All ancient documents were copied by hand before the advent of the printing press in the 16th century. Great care was exercised in reproducing these manuscripts. When we think of copying manuscripts we often assume that one copy was made and then another from that and another from that and so on, each replacing the copy it was reproduced from. This is not how manuscripts copying worked. Copyists were usually working from one or two documents that were very old. They would make many copies of their source copy, all the while preserving their source and comparing the copies they have made. Josephus tells how the Jews copied the Old Testament. "We have given practical proof of our reverence for our own Scriptures. For although such long ages have now passed, no one has ventured either to add, or to remove, or to alter a syllable; and it is an instinct with every Jew, from the day of his birth, to regard them as the decrees of God, to abide by them, and, if need be, cheerfully to die for them" (Against Apion, Book I, sec., 8, p. 158). Josephus statement is no exaggeration. The Jewish copyists knew exactly how many letters where in every line of every book and how many times each word occurred in each book. This enabled them to check for errors (Shelly, Prepare to Answer, p. 133). The Jews believed that adding any mistake to the Scriptures would be punishable by Hell. This is not like the modern secretary who has many letters to type and must work hard to keep their job, and consequently feels that mistakes are inevitable. Great care is exercised with scriptures when someone holds a conviction such as this. But even with the great amount of care exercised in copying, errors have crept into the manuscripts. No one questions that spelling errors, misplaced letters, and word omissions have occurred. What is not true is that these errors have gradually built up over time so that our copies look nothing like the originals. This view was commonly held until recently. In 1947 the accuracy of these documents was confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls. These scrolls were found in caves in the dessert near the Dead Sea by a shepherd boy. Before the discovery of these scrolls, the earliest Old Testament manuscripts we had were from about 980 A.D. The manuscripts discovered in the caves dated from 250 B.C. to shortly after the time of Christ. In careful comparison of the manuscripts it was confirmed that the copies we had were almost precisely the same as those which date over 1000 years earlier. Old Testament scholar Gleason Archer said that even though there is such a difference in dates of the manuscripts, "they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more that 95 per cent of the text. The 5 per cent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling." No other historical literature has been so carefully preserved and historically confirmed. When we come to the New Testament we see a similar phenomenon. There are over 5,000 Greek New Testament manuscripts in existence. This is by far more than any other historical documents, which usually have maybe a dozen copies from very late dates. The New Testament manuscripts are many and old and they are spread over a wide geographical area. What this enables the New Testament historian to do is collect manuscripts from Jerusalem and Egypt and Syria and other places and compare them for variations. And variations do exist, but as with the Old Testament they are relatively few and rarely important to the meaning of the text. What these manuscripts demonstrate is that different families of texts existed very early that were copied from the original or good copies of the original. This allows us to trace the manuscripts back to the source as one would follow the branches of a tree to get to the trunk. Aside from the manuscripts themselves, "virtually the entire New Testament could be reproduced from citations contained in the works of the early church fathers. There are some thirty-two thousand citations in the writings of the Fathers prior to the Council of Nicea (325)" (Moreland, Scaling the Secular City, p. 136). Historical Reliability There is one more important feature of the Bible to examine before we move to the evidence of Christ's resurrection, that is their historical reliability. Unfortunately I cannot go into the history of this topic. Many critics have challenged the historical accuracy of the Bible and have been proved wrong. Let me provide one example. Historians questioned the accuracy of the accounts surrounded Pontius Pilate's crucifixion of Jesus. Pilate found nothing wrong with him and was reluctant to crucify an innocent man. The Jews put pressure on Pilate saying that if you refuse this "you are no friend of Caesar" (John 19:12). At which point Pilate gave in to the Jews. This did not fit any historical records we had of Pilate who was a cruel and dominating man, not likely to give in to a group of Jews whom he hated. Many believed that this account was historically inaccurate because of the way in which it portrayed Pilate. Later it was discovered that Pilate had been appointed by a man named Sejanus who was plotting to overthrow Caesar. Sejanus was executed along with many of his appointees (Delashmutt, Sejanus, p. 55, 56). What this demonstrated was that Pilate was in no position to get in trouble with Rome. The Jews had him in a tight place. If word returned to Rome that Jerusalem was in rebellion, Pilate would be the first to go. The gospel account was confirmed as accurate. Many facts recorded in the Bible have been challenged with the same result, later archeology confirms the reliability of the biblical records down to the smallest detail. A respected Jewish archaeologist has claimed that, "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference" (Shelly, p. 103). This is a strong statement for any archaeologist to make because if it were not true, he would quickly be condemned in his own field. The conclusion that one draws from this material is that the Bible is a reliable historical document. Its accuracy has been proved numerous times. Its historical inaccuracy has never been demonstrated. So that when we approach the Bible, we do so with a good amount of confidence that what it records actually happened. If this is true, then we need to come to terms about what the Bible claims. We cannot dismiss it out of hand because we were not there, regardless of the difficulty of what is said.

The Biblical Record
At this point I would like to move on to the direct evidences for the resurrection of Christ. There are a certain number of historical facts that we can glean from the biblical records. They are: Jesus died by crucifixion, he was buried in a tomb known to the authorities, his disciples were distraught because of his death, his tomb was found empty, the disciples believed that they saw Jesus risen from the grave, this experience changed their lives, the message was central to early church teachings, and it was preached in the very city in which Jesus died (Miethe, Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?, p. 19, 20). These historical facts will be the basis of our argument for Jesus' resurrection.
Jesus died by crucifixion. Crucifixion was a most painful and certain means of death. Christ was whipped by Roman soldiers before his crucifixion (Mt 27:26-31). The Roman method for this was to give thirty-nine lashes before crucifixion. (Forty lashes was considered legally dead after which point an individual could no longer be punished.) The effect of this was to induce considerable blood loss. The Romans used what was called a "cat-of-nine-tails." This whip had many ends to it and usually had pieces of bone, glass, and metal shards attached to it which would rip open the flesh. After being whipped Jesus was forced to carry his own cross to the place of crucifixion. The gospel records indicate that in his weakened state, he was unable to carry the cross (which would have been carried on his wounded back Mt 27:32). Incidentally, Jesus was probably not a weak man. Before his preaching ministry he had been a carpenter and during his ministry he walked hundreds of miles throughout Israel.
Jesus was then nailed to a Roman cross at which point his death came within hours. The Jews were concerned that no bodies would be left on crosses at sundown that evening because it was the beginning of the Sabbath. "The Jews therefore, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away" (Jn 19:31). Crucifixion victims, depending on their health and the method of crucifixion, could last days on a cross. Victims died primarily through blood loss, dehydration, and suffocation. In order to breath when on a cross, it is necessary for the victim to push up with their legs to release the pressure on the lungs. This is a painful process because of the nails in both the hands and feet or ankles. The purpose of breaking the victims legs was so that they would be unable to push themselves up to breath and thus dies more quickly.
However, when they came to Jesus the Roman guards realized he was dead already. "The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs; but one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water" (Jn 19:32-34). John records this detail of piercing Jesus side to indicate that he was in fact dead. In an article published in the Journal of the American Medical Association the doctors examining the historical evidence concluded that the spear probably pierced the sack of fluid that surrounds the heart (JAMA, Vol., 255, No. 11, 1986, p. 1455ff ). If he had not been dead before this time, he was surely dead now.
The gospel records indicate that upon his death two prominent Jewish admirers came to gather Christ's body. "And after these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one, for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. And Nicodemus came also, who had first come to Him by night; bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight" (Jn 19:38). These men were both of the ruling class of the Jews (seventy-one men in all) and well known in the community as well as to Pilate. The mention of prominent men indicates that this account is not fictitious. If the disciples had created this story it would have been counterproductive to make up a person that was supposed to be in a prominent position. This could easily have been refuted were it not true. (Moreland, p. 167).
"And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock; and he rolled a large stone against the entrance of the tomb and went away. And Mary Magdalene was there, and the other Mary, sitting opposite the grave" (Mt 27:59-61). Archaeological evidence confirms the description of this tomb being that of a rich man, which was rare in this day. The probable location described in the gospels correlates with the specific location of the Garden Gate at the north Wall of Jerusalem where tombs have been excavated like those described in which Jesus was laid (Ibid.)
There are some important features to this account. First, this was not a poor man's grave. Only the rich had tombs carved in rock and situated in a garden area. Second, the tomb was identified by Joseph, Nicodemus, and the women who watched where he was buried. The grave is also carefully marked by the Jewish and Roman authorities as this same passage records,
Now on the next day, which is the one after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate, and said, "Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.' Therefore give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day, lest the disciples come and steal Him away and say to the people, 'He has risen from the dead,' and the last deception will be worse than the first" Pilate said to them, "You have a guard; go, make it as secure as you know how." And they went and made the grave secure, and along with the guard they set a seal on the stone. (Mt 27:62-66)
It is also important to note here, that a Roman guard is a group of soldiers not an individual. The seal which was placed over the grave was a wax seal with rope, to break this Roman seal was punishable by death in the Roman empire.
We know also that the disciples were very disillusioned by Jesus' death. The man they had followed around Israel for three years, whom they believed would be the next ruler of the nation, had just been crucified. They had expected a Messiah who would be king, not a criminal to be convicted and killed in the most humiliating way. They probably felt that their lives had been wasted for the past few years and they had publicly been made fools. Of course, they realized that what they had experienced with Christ for the last three years was significant. But how and what was significant, they did not yet understand. The disciples scattered when Christ was arrested in the garden of Gethsemene (Mrk 14:50ff). Peter denied ever knowing Jesus during his "trial" on the night before his crucifixion (Mrk 14:66ff). The disciples were ready to return to their lives as fishermen because they thought it was over (Jn 21:3).
Three days after his burial the tomb was found empty. Each of the gospels reports that Jesus' tomb was found empty (Mt 28: 1-10, Mrk 16:1-8, Lk 24: 1-3; Jn 20:1-10). "But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus" (Lk 24:1-3). When it had been reported to the disciples by Mary that the tomb was empty, they came running:
Simon Peter therefore came, following him, and entered the tomb and he beheld the linen wrappings lying there, and the face-cloth, which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself. So the other disciple who had first come to the tomb entered then also, and he saw and believed [that the body was gone]. For as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead. So the disciples went away again to their own homes. (Jn 20:6-10)
This recording is significant, but what is more significant is that the events which followed Jesus' resurrection bear witness to the fact that his body was indeed missing.
An historical question confronts us at this point. What happened to the body. Scholars have generally agreed that the body was indeed gone and many explanations have been put forth to account for this fact. The most common response is that it was indeed stolen. But this view is hampered with many problems. Who would have stolen it? The Jews would not want to steal it. It was they that posted the Roman guard and they had the most to gain by ensuring that Jesus stayed in his tomb and his teachings died with him. The Romans really had no motivation. It was in Pilate's best interest as a governor whose job was in jeopardy to keep his realm quiet, not to mention that the Romans hated the Jewish religious fanaticism.
The only reasonable explanation for the missing body is that the disciples stole it. But is this plausible? These are the same men who scattered when Jesus was arrested. They were cowardly. They were disillusioned and depressed. And they would need to overpower the Roman guards. It is not likely that they would have had the courage or motivation to carry out such a plan. Why would they steal it? Possibly they wanted to start a new religion, to gain fame and fortune. This is possible but not likely as we will see. The disciples would have put themselves in great risk to steal the body. The Jews and Romans both wanted this disruption stopped, had they believed that the disciples stole the body they would have dragged them into prison and beaten them until they confessed and produced the body. No such thing happened.
A number of incidental details in this account bear the markings of history as opposed to fraud or fiction. The gospels do not portray the disciples in a very glamorous light. If the disciples had propagated this myth we would expect their own accounts of the events to...

oops, sorry OP, I selected far more than I anticipated when I cut and paste my notes and did not mean for that message to be quite so long!

And atrcts wins the prize for the longest post I have ever seen on MN!

Yeah - moral of that story is don't try to respond to a post while one handedly feeding a newborn, in the dead of night with sleep deprivation (the cut and paste may be a bit too trigger-happy without you noticing til it's too late)!!!

Would it be blasphemous to say OMG! in response to that huge post?

Crikey I'm on my phone and atrcts's post took absolutely forever to scroll through :P

madhair can you expand on what you meant when you said I think that the whole world is askew, it's off balance, not as it should be. There are fault lines across nature and across humanity. And give some evidence for what you believe?

And I think the extract about fossil evidence that I pasted below strongly suggests that humans face much less violence now than previously.

Sorry I think my paste took the 'metaphorically' out of your quote.

Look, it might be the longest post ever seen on MN but that doesn't stop it being a load of tinfoil-hat subjective bullshit. It's like Nostradamus and Old Moore's Almanac: you can interpret the bullshit to fit the facts and most of it is either so vague it can be twisted any way you like, or it's no-shit-Sherlock stuff that would happen anyway in the course of time.

WMittens.
Your post of 21.43pm yesterday posted a link. I have looked up the verses, and they are way off what is in my bible.

The ones you linked to earlier in the day were not, they were spot on, give or take an odd word or two.

Caster8

I have looked up the verses, and they are way off what is in my bible.

And that is the exact reason I have a problem with people claiming the Bible is the exact and true 'Word of God'. Which bible? It's meaningless.

Ah. No it isnt.
I will tell you a story.
I have been a Christian for a number of years. So has my mum. She uses the King James bible, and I dont think there are many or even any Christians alive, who have a problem with it. But when I came to want to do the things in the bible, as well as just read and understand it, I found I couldnt. Becuase I just couldnt understand it enough. So I had a look round and settled on the NRSV bible.
I did start off with the Good News bible, which is ok up to a point, you get the correct gist with that one, but when you start to look into it, and want to do stuff that is in it, you find that some parts do not tie in with other parts. In other words, the translation is not really tight enough. It is ok for children, in fact I would go so far as to say that it is good for children, and indeed adults who dont know much about the bible, it is easy to read, but beyond that, as I say it is not tight enough.
The Good News Bible, is a bit like reading a children cookery book as opposed to reading Jamie Oliver or Delia Smith?
I was going to give another story, but that may be enough for now.

The Message is an interpretation I enjoy but I dip into various interpretations to get a fuller picture. They usually say the same thing but as the original languages are rich, pictoral languages it can be a challenge to get it to scan in another language, as well as retaining the meaning. A theology teacher friend snorts at mention of The Message, but I like it. It was interpretated by an American who wanted to present a bible that gang members could read and relate to - so there are a few Yo! God!'s in there.

SGB I get it that we can project onto God the characteristics we need/want/recognise. Ime God puts us right on our projections - gradually, over the course of time. It is a relationship and as such it develops and changes and there is various toing and froing going on.

What, God talks to us?

Interpretated? That's a good one

referring to the original post only, as this thread is too long for a sunday, I suggest hophophopskip, you get down to church if you fancy that. alternatively, stay at home in your room and open your heart to God. He'll be there in a flash - in fact, He's already there, just waiting for you to notice. more love, sister, if indeed a sister you are.

HophophopSkip

I lack that one element that I feel is crucial to have a faith, and that is, I lack faith.

Be at peace with that and you will feel as blessed/enlightened as anyone with a faith.

I would rather not practice a religion I don't have true faith in, than live a life of someone I'm not.

I always believe in God when I'm in a Church, that is the intent! I always believe in certain Pagan beliefs when I'm gardening. I'd believe in Allah if I went to a mosque. I would be a fool to nail my colours to any mast unless I was 100% certain and doubt free. But that's just me.

I am very happy now I have relieved myself of the pressure to seek something I already have within me. I don't know what it's called, or what it is, but an acceptance of not knowing/believing has brought me a comfort that I suspect is similar to being part of a religion.

Not knocking religion at all. I also understand that feeling of belonging, of a greater guardian, of peace eternal, forgiveness, justice etc., that just 'is', is something very powerful. I just don't have the faith. There is nothing wrong with that, if you lack faith you could egde your bets and pick one of any millions of religions to follow, and if you find peace within one of those and it makes sense to your life then YANBU to dive right in. I couldn't.

I havent been able to decide whether to respond to your post, aldiwhore, or not. But I think I will, partly because it is relevant to the op.
You feel as blessed, which is nice, but you wont be quite as blessed.

The point relevant especially to the op, is that I think people dont realise that church isnt just for religious people. Most churches I know would welcome much larger congregations with open arms. No matter how into God the people that come, are.

Can I ask you, aldiwhore, in other things in your life, not religion, are you regularly swayed by people and wherever you are and all sorts?

'Look, it might be the longest post ever seen on MN'

Have you not seen a ttosca cut-and-paste post?

Still say that this one is longest!

I've struggled all my live to believe because I've always been told, by various sources that I should, and because I'd like to! But I just don't, and no amount of stern talking to myself seems to persuade me otherwise.

I still call myself 'spiritual', because I'm still searching for something to put my restless mind at ease, not sure quite what. But these days its more meditation and writing than prayer.

I'd still like to believe, but I've long held that truth is the most important thing, regardless of how uncomfortable or unpalatable.

I'd 'love' to think I'm going to be whisked away into heaven (or another life) when I die, and that there's a bigger plan behind it all that will make sense in the end. But wishing it so doesn't make it so.