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AIBU?

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Original poster

OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

767 replies

Utterlyastoundedmum · 22/07/2013 14:53

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

OP posts:
yabyum · 22/07/2013 19:16

When I was teaching, I used to love it when parents took their kids out during term time. They were always the type of kids whose absence improved the atmosphere of the whole class. We used to have a nice rest for two weeks until they got back from Disneyland (it was always Disneyland).

TabithaStephens · 22/07/2013 19:17

Schools are not there to be used as childcare as and when the parents see fit. If you want to send children to a school, you abide by it's conditions. Otherwise, send your children elsewhere, or educate them yourself at home.

yabyum · 22/07/2013 19:18

it is a school's job to educate. It is not a school's job to dictate

Schools operate within a legal framework which they are obliged to enforce. Nobody really cares whether your kids pitch up or not. But they have to go through the motions.

geeandfeesmum · 22/07/2013 19:25

I realise that schools are obliged to enforce this. I am saying that the government needs to realise what school is supposed to be for.

Literacy rates are low, education standards are slipping but instead of dealing with the task at hand, the government (and the schools to some extent) place the entirety of the blame on parents.

If schools were allowed to concentrate on doing their jobs, instead of dictating to parents,our education system would be in a much better place.

TabithaStephens · 22/07/2013 19:28

I think parents are more to blame than teachers tbh. Although teachers are hamstrung by regulations that prevent them from having discipline in schools, and being able to boot out disruptive kids.

MissStrawberry · 22/07/2013 19:29

Easiest, and most sensible, thing to do would be to implement legislation to stop holiday providers from being able to charge more in school holidays than term time.

5madthings · 22/07/2013 19:31

So what about parents with restricted leave, really not that unusual at all.

Or families that cannot afford a break otherwise, the ones who go on a £10 sun holiday where the dates cannot always be chosen? These are the families that will suffer. Not the middle class who can afford to holiday whenever, who will probably just pay the fine and go anyway.

Or families like the poster above whose dc's have special needs and cant cope with the crowds etc.

The law still states that head teachers can authorise leave in exceptional circumstances, this is what they should do and look at each case on an individual basis not issue blanket bans.

5madthings · 22/07/2013 19:33

Oh and my kids have never been to disneyland, we holiday in the uk. They also are not disruptive, infact they get described as model students, polite, well mannered and behaved etc yabyum so your stereotype doesnt fit.

TabithaStephens · 22/07/2013 19:39

"Easiest, and most sensible, thing to do would be to implement legislation to stop holiday providers from being able to charge more in school holidays than term time."
What good would that do? There's only so many hotel rooms, campsite space etc. If holiday companies were charging too much, there'd be loads empty all summer long.

Do you expect there to be millions of hotel rooms sitting empty for 40+ weeks a year so that everyone can go on holiday during the school holidays?

Viviennemary · 22/07/2013 19:39

I'd just be tempted to go on the holiday anyway and write a letter saying the child was ill. I bet nothing would be done about it. Good point re the right to a family life. These schools need putting in their place.

geeandfeesmum · 22/07/2013 19:40

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that despite the fact that my children have been to Disneyworld twice, we also holiday in the UK and Europe. DS is a model student who is top of his class. Very polite, well mannered etc. DD is different but not because of holidays. She only started school this year and we haven't been away (or are planning to) this year.

So, once again, the stereotype does not fit.

LaTrucha · 22/07/2013 19:41

A holiday with their grandparents would most certainly be educational for my DC - they would learn more fluent Spanish, (their second language)and also learn what it is to have an extended family as we don't have any in this country. Unfortunately, we haven't even been able to afford to go in term time. We were just about getting there. An extra £120 makes a big difference to us. It stinks. And our headmaster thinks so too.

josephinebruce · 22/07/2013 19:42

Yes, a school's job (among SO many others) is to educate.

Can't do that if your child is not there, can they.

TabithaStephens · 22/07/2013 19:43

The right to a family life doesn't include the right to a cheap holiday!

jamdonut · 22/07/2013 19:47

In our area ( a northern seaside town) there is a bigger leeway given to children having holidays during term-time,because an awful lot of parents have to work during the summer season,(seasonal jobs) and aren't allowed time off then. That is usually allowed at the Head's discretion.

My husband works for Tesco, and I work in a school. Trying to get our holidays to co-incide is almost impossible, and we end up (more often than not) not getting them at the same time. We are mostly lucky in August when we usually get 1 week off at the same time.

yabyum · 22/07/2013 19:50

OK, fair enough - not all truants are going to Disneyworld. But what they all have in common is parents who don't support the school, don't support teachers, and whose ghastly entitled attitudes rub off on their children.

motownmover · 22/07/2013 19:50

Can anyone tell me if I trip to Nz or Oz to visit grandparents counts? Otherwise when my child goes to school there won"t be family visits??

I am very concerned about this?

5madthings · 22/07/2013 19:54

Err no we do support the school actually and i have a good relationship with their teachers and head teachers who are understanding of issues re my partners work, hence why they authorise the leave :)

ohforfoxsake · 22/07/2013 19:54

It's not about holidays being CHEAP. It's about them being AFFORDABLE.

YonisAreForever · 22/07/2013 19:56

Any travel opens and broadens the mind.

At the moment holidays are a luxury because of cost, but it will be the poorest among us as usual who will be hit by this.

I want my DC to be well travelled - we can't get far, long haul as it is, ideally I want them to see the whole world, we can only get short haul but that too will be out of grasp now DD is in school.

Agree ledkr the appalling things so many - so many do to their DC and all we want to do is take them away once a year for a week.

You only get one childhood.

crashdoll · 22/07/2013 19:59

I feel sorry for teachers. It's clear some people don't appreciate the free education their child/ren get. And before someone claims their tax covers it, well most tax payers will never put in as much as they take out. For some people, it just seems a place to plonk their children between 9 and 3 when they don't fancy going on Ibiza.

motownmover · 22/07/2013 19:59

yabyum- what total utter rot. You have no idea.

All of my and my DH's family live a 26 hour flight away that can cost 1K plus per adult.

We have fundraised for the local nursery and would do for a school.

2 GP's can not travel for health reasons. It takes a long time to save for the travel.

When I grew up in NZ and Aus thankfully teachers supported travel outside term times -and it was seen as very educational.

This policy is insane - many parents currently in the UK are working longer hours and will entrench inequalities.

YonisAreForever · 22/07/2013 20:01

Yabyum

would my DD teacher have been lying at parents evening when she said my DD's fantastic attitude helped to propel the less enthusiastic along, she was always the one who just wanted to get on and do things, and always happy and smiling? Who is excelling in reading, writing and maths?

Who prides herself on being in the " good gang" and never gets told off.

Who has feckless parents who want her to see the world and with them!

You were really a teacher? Yikes

nkf · 22/07/2013 20:01

There are so many weeks off. 13 or so. I know that it is more expensive and I know that some families have real problems matching dates up. But - despite the individual stories - all available data seems to show that high attendance in school is a major indicator of educational outcome.

MadeOfStarDust · 22/07/2013 20:01

You can take a trip to NZ or Aus in the holidays though - over Christmas or Easter, or Summer. If it is double the cost in the holidays, you go half as often...

I hated when my parents took me out of school, playing catch up for weeks - people always forget exactly what was gone over - like long division - the number of times I was told "you covered this in Y5" - erm no I didn't I was away for a week when the fundamentals were covered and it slipped through the gap when I got back etc...etc....etc... but I was one of those rare-as-hen's-teeth people on mumsnet - shhhhhh... NOT top group of the class....

I wish my parents had been told NO instead of "the monuments of Greece, how interesting and educational - have fun" - FUN?!?! it was hot and boring for an 8 year old - woo another bloody column.....