OMG. Are these 'penalty notices' for taking children out of school in term time legally enforceable?

[Utterlyastoundedmum]

Not interested in having a debate about whether it is 'right' to take a child out of schol, in term time for holidays etc. just wanting to know whether they can be enforced from a legal perspective.

I have just read the latest school newsletter and am to be honest, very annoyed indeed to find that as of September the school are changing its policy on authorising absences. Until now it's always been on a case by case basis but now they are saying no absence will be authorised whatsoever no matter what, except for one day for weddings ( with proof!)

The penalty is £60 or £120.

Not very fair on any parents such as myself who booked a holiday for a week in October as we really CANNOT get away in half term this year.

I will not be paying unless this is legally enforcible!!

Why would it cost more than if the teacher had the flu for a week?

Most schools have insurance to cover the cost of teaching staff sickness - can't get that for holidays though!

I didn't say it was a sign of maturity.

I SAID AS YOU GET OLDER YOU REALISE THAT NOT ALL RULES ARE MADE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ANYONE OTHER THAN THOSE MAKING THE RULES.

Ok, chuck? :)

Paperweight, is this you?

I fully accept the consequences of my actions. That doesn't mean I follow rules blindly.

I fully accept the consequences of my actions. That doesn't mean I follow rules blindly.

So you accept that if you take your DCs out of school you may be fined, and the school may come under increased scrutiny from the LA and Inspection framework as a result? Excellent, hopefully, when cases like yours are reported in the media it will act as a deterrent for other parents who are less willing

I didn't say it was a sign of maturity

My mistake - oh, the irony

Honestly Paperweight, you must be so deathly dull. You are probably raising little sheep, too. I always tell DS to never just blindly accept that what authority tells you is right. You must think and judge for yourself. I am so glad that my parents taught me this, too.

Paperweight, I don't send my children to school.

Honestly Paperweight, you must be so deathly dull

Good job there's some dull people like me in the world twatkins - given that people who are more independently minded like yourself won't step up and get involved in the 'officious' side of things because they're far too anti-establishment.

Why don't you home educate twatkins? You clearly think you could do a better job, so why risk your DCs being taught how to conform if it bothers you so much?

Lots of bitter people on here. Thank God that my father was able to take my sister and I to Jamaica in 1979 from November 13th to January 1980. No school on God's green earth could have given me, at the age of nine the perspective that I gained from coming from a concrete jungle to seeing true natural beauty and being surrounded by loads and loads of black and other people of colour who didn't have to shake off a "putting up with racism" persona as soon as they got home from work. How beautiful to experience christmas which was not about a whole heap of present giving, but my grandmother (only back in Jamaica for five years at that time) throwing a party which was attended by anybody in the district who had clothes to wear.
Education isn't only about overworked teachers droning on according to the national curriculum. I was reading BEFORE I entered any educational establishment (no teacher taught me how to read. Even though my mother and father were self absorbed, they and I were always surrounded by books and music). Maybe if parents and teachers realised that they are both important to a child'e education then this point scoring/fund raising initiative would be knocked on the head, or at least be deemed discretional.
Too much "I can't afford a holiday, why should other parents be able to take their children away during term time" malarkey on here. I dare say that most Black people were under and have been under the "credit crunch" forever. It teaches ingenuity. If anybody thinks that people who take their children away on long haul flights to see family are rich, well you all were not there when we ate pig tail and rice, chicken back and rice (all lovely, CHEAP and nutritious....just not "pretty") in order to "live". If I waited until I was a millionaire in order to feed me and mine's minds, bodies and souls, or until the curmudgeons knew how to budget and make shit shine, I'd be bitter, too. I bet not one person who is moaning about people taking their kids on holiday during term time REALLY cares if said children will turn out to be dunces. Whilst this ruling should affect the lazy parents who LET their kids bunk off, it will also affect those parents who do EVERYTHING to get ungrateful children to school. Is this ruling even fair on those unfortunate parents?
We don't even need our "betters" to oppress us. We already have too many bad minded proles watching other proles and grudging any joy that they manage to bring to their own lives. Then they turn hypocrite and say that they care that everybody should follow the rules. I call bull. I'd have more respect for the curmudgeons who just admitted that they are badminded and grudgeful. I have no stakes here, my daughter is grown.

Paperweight, I don't send my children to school.

I think that reinforces my point - which is if you don't agree with the system, opt out

Maybe if parents and teachers realised that they are both important to a child'e education then this point scoring/fund raising initiative would be knocked on the head, or at least be deemed discretional.

stooshe Teachers and (most) parents do. It's the rules laid down by Government that ignore those facts.

If teachers invested the time and energy needed to fight the system there would be nothing left for the DCs they are there to educate.

I am lucky that our current position (working being too expensive) allows me that option Paperweight. It is disingenuous to suggest that that is an easy option for many people. More people hopefully will realise it's a very viable option though.

How do you propose to change the system by doing exactly what the bastards are telling you though?

We already have too many bad minded proles watching other proles and grudging any joy that they manage to bring to their own lives

No more prevalent than here on MN Stooshe.

Socialism is it? Making people turn on each other? Something like it? Communism? People policing each other...

How do you propose to change the system by doing exactly what the bastards are telling you though?

By being a part of it! By being involved, I've had the chance to meet with Government Ministers, policy makers, officious 'busybodies' and the bastards who make the rules and you know what? They do listen!
I've seen green papers amended into very different legislative implements after consultation and feedback has been taken into account. I've seen their frustration when the success of initiatives to improve the life of the majority are lost in the clamour from the minority whose lives are a little less luxurious as a result.
Of course they're not perfect, but who amongst us is? I've made some dreadful mistakes, which have significantly impacted on the lives of others; sometimes I'm fortunate enough to be able to put them right.

I admit I'm altruistic - I don't get the every man for himself mentality - if they makes me a dull busybody, then so be it!

I certainly don't have an every man for himself mentality. I may not send my children to school, but I still care about those who do.

May I have some examples of the state listening?

May I have some examples of the state listening?

Way back when "Every Child Matters" was in its 'green paper' form, the (previous) Government held a series of consultations with professionals about the content - the White Paper that followed bore no resemblance to the original proposals, particularly in relation to the childcare inspection framework, the initial proposals for which had been considered too draconian by many, and which were less onerous in the final white paper (not a decision I agreed with, btw).

More recently, the proposals for changes to the way in which separated parents are treated in law were consulted on, and some of the 'contentious' issues were addressed. For instance, the phrase 'if it is safe to do so' was reintroduced to the documentation where it describes child contact with the NRP - it was left out initially in response to campaigning from Fathers Rights groups, but put back in after objections from campaigners with opposing views.

I would home-school, if it were a viable option. DS would probably get more from it than he currently does at school.

However, overall, it isn't the education side of things that I have a problem with and when it comes to the crunch, I send my son to school to be educated. Where governments are confusing themselves is in thinking that schools/LAs should have any governance over anything else. They are there to educate, not dictate. Five or ten days authorised absence will not prevent them from being educated.

If head teachers themselves are passing votes of no confidence in policies, why the bugger are they going to listen to parent governors?

So if education all day that important how comes due to LEA not bring able find a school all they have to offer legally is 5 hours a week home tutor ?

Because, Catapult, it is important when they say it is. Because their judgement is better than a parent's.

Try asking Gove and Wilshaw. What's the point of continuing to whine about the LA, schools and teachers?

I would home-school, if it were a viable option. DS would probably get more from it than he currently does at school.

So rather than accept the inconveniences associated with homeschooling, you take advantage of the education provided, but opt out of the bits of the provided service that are inconvenient to you?

Imagine if everyone did that. oh, I can't get DCs to school on time, but it's only 5/10/15 minutes late, they don't do much in the first few minutes of class anyway.

Human catapult, when you break down what happens in a school day, most of it is logistics, getting children in and out, to the toilet and back, between classes etc. and very little of the actual teaching is one to one.
That 5 hours of one to one tuition will give them just as much actual teaching/learning.

Just like this policy, it's about keeping children in the school, not about how much they learn!

Been thinking about this thread. Am wondering how this is going to be implemented for the couple of million child/teen carers that are caring for ill/disabled parents.
What happens in that situation. Has it even occured to Gove knows the answer already

'By being a part of it! By being involved, I've had the chance to meet with Government Ministers, policy makers, officious 'busybodies' and the bastards who make the rules and you know what? They do listen!'

I have been too, and ime, they don't listen, nor give a rats arse, nor even turn up to a consultation more than a couple of minutes in order to diarise the event as evidence that they held a constulation.