To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

Not true Babyh, the little boy who was bitten in the face recently in Ireland was only standing beside the dog at the time. The dog was on a lead and in a controlled position. There were 4 adults present and as it was a school environment the children had all been told how to behave. The child did nothing but stand there, but the dog still felt threatened and bit him.

news.sky.com/story/1109303/boy-bitten-by-dog-at-ballymena-primary-school

MuttDog is smallish and unthreatening looking, but is nervy and growly. Under the right conditions she is a great dog, she has to be introduced to new people and then becomes the soft as shite pup we know and love. A child (or adult) running up to her and scaring her would likely cause her to snap, it would definately cause her to bark and growl. She has fear aggression and separation anxiety.

She is soft enough to have been used by a friend to help his daughter get over her (unfounded) fear of dogs, in fact it probably helped as I was able to explain to the girl that mutt was as scared of her as she was of mutt.

If we are out in an unfamiliar place, or a place that has lots of people around then she wears a yellow ribbon to signify that she needs space.

If MuttDog snapped at a child that had approached her without warning, that had hurt her or had shoved their faces into hers then I would not be prosecuted and Mutt would not be killed. I have worked with the Dog Warden long enough to know this is true. Even unprovoked dogs that bite are not immediately PTS unless the owner requests it. I was bitten on the hip by a German Shep when assessing it for rescue/rehoming. The dog was not PTS and with many months of retraining and behaviourist intervention the dog was able to be rehomed with a suitable family and is now much loved.

Knee jerk reactions and absolute statements that are actually incorrect help no-one.

All dogs should be well trained, walking, recall, manners etc. All dog owners should be trained - your dog needs boundaries and has its own quirks and foibles that you should know and plan for. But all children (and adults) should be trained not to approach dogs you don't know.

midnitescribbler why oh why, interrupt a perfectly good argument by a sensible, reasoned post?
I really fail to see why this should be so contentious, it HAS to be a balanced approach, as both parties are to blame if a child is injured in the circumstances described by the OP. Of course, children should not run up to and "attack" a dog, but dogs should also be trained to cope with the circumstances if they arise.

There's a cd available for those who do want to teach their children to be safe around dogs (aimed at 3-6 year olds):

www.thebluedog.org/en/

Regardless of the argument about where the responsibility lies, the reality is that dogs and children will have to share space at times for the foreseeable future so the sensible thing to do would be to teach your child how to act around dogs.

I've just seen this and yes they should. Its a 2 way thing. Yes train and control your dog but kids need telling too. Only commenting as just yesterday I was walking my loverly Patterdale who was struggling in the heat and just wanted to get home. He was on his lead but a kid and his dad were approaching m he was obviously a bit wary so I got poochs lea a bit tighter and stood at the far side of the path n let them go past. Kid kept his distance but as soon as he was past he started stamping his feet and barking at my dog luckily he was too shattered to care but any other day he'd give him a good yap back. No way to behave around adog. Dad couldn't care less either

I agree that children should be taught not to approach dogs without asking the owner, but dealing with the dogs that run up to them in parks etc is more of a problem. DS is afraid of them and no way is he able to stand quiet and still if one runs at or jumps up at him, which does happen quite a lot. I don't know much about dogs as I have no experience of living with them but I know if one runs at me my instinct is to back away, even if they are friendly I don't want muddy paw prints on my clothes.

It has got to be a two way street, dog owners have a responsibility to train and control their dogs, parents have a responsibility to educate their children about dangers. I would have been very grateful if the parent who let his two year old hold my cocker spaniel's head and stick his thumbs in the dogs eyes (!) had stopped his son - my dog does not deserve that treatment. I was with him, he didn't snap. But I would not have entirely blamed him if he had.

My DSs have been taught to read a dogs cues - tails, growls etc. They have also been involved when we were training our current dog. Simple things like fussing a dog under it's chin or on it's chest are great - if you pat a dog on the head or the back they can't see what you are doing, so they are more nervous. If they can see your hand they know you are not attacking them.

I agree with midnight's earlier post. As a dog owner and a mum, I think we're all responsible for showing kids how to behave around dogs. I don't rely on parents to tell their kids how to behave around my dog. If they approach to pet my dog, I will make sure it is done in a way dog is ok with.

Some parents don't bother and are irresponsible, but actually many more parents just don't know the best way for their kids to interact with a dog, if they're not doggy people.

I've told kids running up to my dog to stop and that it is ok to pet him but they must always ask owner. Also shown them to stoke his side when he's calm not to wave hand in his face etc. Most parents are fine with this but I don't care if they weren't to be honest. I just like things safe for dog and child.

Yes of course kids need to be taught. My youngest was kicked in the head by a horse because he didn't listen to what I said (which was DO NOT GO NEAR THAT HORSE) - so it might take a while in the case of some children. Although ds3 does now listen to me when I say things like that.

As I always say on these threads if you have a child who is terrified of dogs it is worth teaching them not to run off screaming waving their arms in the air - because it makes life easier for them Ds2 was constantly chased by dogs when younger because of his reactions (they were friendly dogs - he was never in any danger). Had he just ignored the dogs they wouldn't have chased him. By the age of 8 people were not inviting him to their houses because his reaction to their friendly family dogs was so over the top. Anyway 3 years later he adores dogs, is very good with them - they seem to love him & the invitations to friend's houses are forthcoming again. So it is possible to deal with even extreme fear.

Dogs are everywhere in the UK & so yes teaching your child to behave around them & read their body language is sensible. The vast majority of dogs I have met have been friendly and if ignored will ignore you back.

See, I would never have thought about what Singinggirl said about patting their chest not their back, and have no idea about dog body language other than the very obvious growling etc. Stuff that seems completely obvious and second nature to dog owners just isn't to those of us who have never lived with them.

I am very happy for people to say hello to my dog, however a couple of times recently we have been in pub gardens and children have been left to poke and prod her for a really long time when their parents sit elsewhere.
She's an angel, but she's a dog too. Its just not sensible.

saintly that has been the point of most people on the thread buy apparently there are some serious dog haters who think their kids can do what they like and feel that its everyone else's responsibility to make sure they are safe.

Uncontrolled dogs off the lead are a bloody nightmare for everyone, but where dogs on leads are concerned it is the parent's responsibility to make sure their children are safe and under control

Oh yes I know baby - and on other threads as well. That's why I put the horse experience on here. Ds3 was incredibly lucky to not be seriously hurt (he flew through the air) but the fault was not with the horse. It was with him for not listening to me and me for assuming he had an understanding of why I had said that. I was standing very near him but with my back turned, when really I guess I should have been shadowing him.

Having been kicked by a horse I can understand the pain, and tbh horses are far more unpredictable than dogs IME. You sound far more responsible than some parents though and reasonable enough to acknowledge your child was at fault. More parents could do with seeing their kids are not blameless in incidents like that.

My niece was mauled by a dog when she was 12. She needed surgery. Luckily no lasting damage.

She'd been at a sleepover with her friend. She's very dog aware and sensible. Her and her friend had been playing with this family dog all weekend. No problems. When she was leaving, she walked towards the dog and put her hand out to stroke the dog to say goodbye. He just went for her face. It was horrific.

They live abroad where there are no dangerous dog laws (it seems). The owners just shrugged it off. The dog is still with them, playing with the children.

I love dogs, but it makes me so angry when I come across owners who genuinely believe that their dogs would never hurt anyone without provocation.

Oh and yes, I'm sick of my children running an obstacle course of dog shit outside the school gates and in the park.

My son doesn't have the understanding. I would never let him approach a dog but dog owners should not let their dogs sniff around him as he may well grab at them or if he is in his sn buggy, kick them. And if it is somewhere where dogs are supposed tobe on leads then keep them on a lead.

I agree with you.

I have a dog which is very appealing to children because it kind of looks like a little bear. Two children came running up behind us and started touching my dog, I was annoyed with them, they did startle her and I told them not to ever touch a dog without asking the owners permission first, they looked really shocked so didn't appear to have been told this before, they were approx 7-8yo. My dog was on a lead walking by my side and under control, she's also not aggressive, yet I would of been held responsible if my dog had reacted badly to being scared by anyone, cause adult do this too.

To pick up the point Saintly makes about teaching your DCs to ignore them to avoid being chased, we try and tell DS to stand still, but if he does stand still they jump up and put their paws on him, which is what he was afraid of in the first place, it really isn't very easy to persuade him it's the right thing to do. We are trying but I do wish dogs didn't do it. As I have never owned a dog I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or not to be honest.

At least we don't have to teach him not to approach them though, no chance of that! Although I still say it anyway in case he changes his mind one day. I always think the owners must think I'm weird saying to a child who obviously has no desire to go anywhere near their dog to keep away from them.

whoknows the point being made here isn't about dogs charging about off the lead, its about dogs on leads and under control being approached by kids and adults.

I know and I have mentioned that, however that is only part of learning to behave round dogs. Just trying to make the point that for those of us who have never had dogs it isn't always as obvious or easy as it might seem to dog owners.

Without being rude, as parents its you who need to educate yourselves as well as your children. Most dog owners are responsible and will keep their dogs under control. A very small minority give us a bad name. But the fact remains that as parents it is your job to keep your kids under control and not deliberately put them in harms way by allowing them to behave inappropriately around animals

Lazeyjaney, that would depend upon what the dog was doing at the time and whether you could prove it was "dangerously out of control" if your child walked over to my dog and deliberately hurt or intimidated him and was injured as a result of my dog defending himself, I could probably afford a decent enough solicitor to prove it was the child who was dangerously out of control and not the dog

If the dog bit my child in a public place you would be liable for prosecution. If the child needed stitches your dog could be put down. In all cases I can sue.

Outside of the reality distortion field of this thread, parents dont have to keep their kids on leashes in public places, the number of child attacks on dogs remains stubbornly at zero, (as do the number of dog deaths due to child attacks), and the law aims to protect children from dogs and their deluded owners, not the other way round

apparently it is our job to parent lazyjaney's child

There is no way on earth I would trust people who put the rights of dogs above those of children, to parent mine.

The pro dog arguments on this thread have a scary echo with pro gun lobby in the US.

Children don't kill and maim dogs. dogs do kill and maim children. That is all one needs to know about where the danger lies.