To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

So many posters have pointed out that children lose their heads around dogs despite being warned about both dogs and strangers it is becoming clear...

The same could be said about babies though
Could you restrain your forgetful / disobedient child from touching my baby? She is in her pram minding her own business, and my elderly 3 legged muzzled dog whos lead is tied to the pram is plodding along next to us minding his own business also.
Why should walk in the dark?
Because your children are forgetful / disobedient ?
Pah!
Lazy parenting more like!

why should we walk in the dark ?

Am having a little difficulty with your scenario here, Donnadoon.

You are dragging an old three-legged dog out for a walk -- why?
Do you absolutely have to take your baby out for a walk and is the dog along for the ride so to speak?

If you have a problem with children poking your baby put it in a sling or a carrier?
Oh yes, you probably have a bad back or the baby can't sleep in a sling.

There are all sorts of reasons why children shouldn't poke babies but again, if this is a huge irritation to you, keep away from parks where children congregate or take your walks at times when children are not out much.

You should walk in the dark if being interrupted in your daylight walks by children makes you foam at the mouth. That way walking your dog won't contribute to a blood pressure problem for you and your dog won't pick up your irritation and become tense and dangerous.

Lots of people walk their dogs at night. They come home from work and have some dinner and take their dogs out. It's not unheard of.

Or they walk very early in the morning. Lots of people do this too. Where I live there are little communities of night and morning dog walkers who all know each other well and know each others' dogs. It is pleasant for everyone. No better way to start your day than a stroll, saying hello to people and dogs you know, relaxed in the knowledge that you will not be accosted by curious children. You could bring your mug of coffee along with your poo bags.

Ok so my dog is NEITHER old nor 3 legged
But my point remains
Children shouldn't be allowed to run up to dogs willy nilly

And I seriously can't believe that you think it's ok to take a baby out in the dark because I can not rely on feral children not antagonising us.
Please try and stay on topic
Remember my dog is under control and the children in the OP are not under control

If you want to take a little portable fence with you then go ahead, Donnadoon. Because that is the only thing that will stop them.

If you have a baby to take care of as well as a dog, and you are really bothered by children running up to your dog then you have to decide what factor in all of that is the most important to you and organise your life accordingly. Walk early, walk late, stay away from parks and schoolyards, get a prescription for valium -- but do not walk at midday in a park and expect other people to change their nature or be vigilant to an unreasonable degree to enable you to exercise your privilege.

Other people are not obliged to facilitate the solving of your conundrum.

Your dog is under control to the best of your knowledge. An owner who thinks her dog is under control 100% is one who is deluded and due a comeuppance, hopefully not at the expense of another dog or someone else's child. When you are out with a dog you can never assume the dog is completely under control no matter how well trained your dog is.

And since the OP was about children basically being nuisances rather than beating dogs with sticks and kicking them maybe you could drop references to that sort of behaviour?

I also think you should stop referring to children as 'feral' as if that was a character defect of theirs, or a realistic description of enthusiastic children who would love a dog but don't have one. Feral is a word used to refer properly to animals and when used in relation to children it becomes a pejorative that is really offensive. Children who are abandoned or sleep rough are children who should be pitied, not seen as contempt-worthy.

But do not walk at mid day in a park and expect people to control their children
Yep we've gone full circle
Exactly what the nice OP was asking
And FWIW my DH walks our dog morning and night
I take him out occasionally
I was just agreeing with the OP and arguing for arguements sake really because on page 1 people started talking about teaching children to BATTER DOGS WITH BIG STICKS !

Donna, we figured out the answer ages ago. We effectively become in loco parentis of the children, since we assume full responsibility for their safety as soon as they look at our dogs so it is okay to tell them to jump in that muddy puddle or promise them that Mummy will buy them an ice cream right now because we are the ones in charge

In fact from now on whenever an unattended child approaches my dogs I am going to tell them where the nearest ice cream shop is and that Mummy has ice cream money in her purse.

I know D0oin Great isn't it.

You are responsible for the safety of children and adults and other dogs and even cats when you take your dog out. You can't tell them to jump in a puddle or tell them that they are about to get an ice cream. But when they come near your dog then you are responsible for whatever your dog does. Not for what the child does, but for what your dog does. If you are happy that your dog is calm and patient and well socialised then what is your worry?

Don't whine about people being ready to sue you for injuries when you take out an animal equipped with teeth and a set of self protective instincts and instincts to protect the pack that are not human in any way. Don't whine about children being attracted to dogs when you yourself found them sufficiently attractive to go out and get one for yourself and pick up its poo in a bag daily.

If you are annoyed by children keep away from them. If you are worried about your dog's response to children ditto. If you think your dog will be injured by rough treatment blah blah... There are thousands of children about. They keep fairly predictable hours and they tend to congregate in certain places. Don't count on them to understand warnings from parents or remember to keep away. If they had any sense they wouldn't need those warnings in the first place. It's not rocket science. All you have to do is acknowledge the reality of human nature and cover your arse where the law is concerned, and govern yourself accordingly.

There are reasons why people who know me tend not to leave their children unattended with me for long. My sister left me with my baby niece once at a birthday party while she made a phone call, by the time she came back DN had learned her first word "cake" [proud]

The last time she left my nephew here I sent him home with glitter, glue and half a million Thomas the Tank Engine print outs and the promise of three new baby fish for his fish tank.

She doesn't ask me to babysit anymore.

"or be vigilant to an unreasonable degree"

My children have never ever approached a strange dog without the owner being asked while I was present, they were never given unsupervised access to a dog while too young to understand that a stroke is nice and a poke isn't. They weren't allowed out alone until I was as sure as I could be that they were responsible enough to be.

There is a possibility that they may when deemed responsible enough to be out alone have forgotten to ask before stroking a strange dog, but the stage that they were out alone is well past the stage where they are unable to stroke without also poking or prodding, for me and all dog owners that I know, that isn't an issue.

That isn't being vigilant to an unreasonable degree - that is run of the mill normal parenting for most people.

Not annoyed by children near our dogs though are we? We all have children too
Just naughty, forgetful, disobiedient however you choose to describe them ones that pull and grab without asking
Re read the OP

Is this seriously still going?

This is getting well off point isn't it. Please all you non-dog owning people must realise that dogs need walks, any walking route is likely to encounter children. The owners here are not worried about walking through the park while children play nearby or passing children in the street, our dogs are under control and therefore unless specifically approached by people they will not have any interaction with people. You can happily walk a dog down a packed main street and not have them interact with anyone, we keep them on lead and place ourselves between the dog and any passers-by, not to mention the fact that the dog is on a walk and just doesn't really give a shit about other people. If you have concerns about out of control dogs approaching your children then you are on the wrong thread and need to start your own.

This thread focuses on controlled dogs being approached by children without the owners consent. The dogs concerned are all on leads, their owners do act responsibly and ensure that their dogs do not approach anyone. Their concern is that despite all of their efforts to minimize the risk children approach, usually running and waving their arms about, and touch their dog without permission, thus making all precautions pointless.

We do far more than you realise, it is not just attaching them to a lead, dog owners actively socalise their dogs, many employ startle training to get their dog used to frights, we train them to walk nicely and exercise them reqularly, we establish our dominance and training to ensure that the dog will listen to us in any situation, and we keep people who may be hazardous to our dogs health or training away.

We get that we a responsible for ensuring the safety of passersby and we do, but it is made much harder by children (and adults) running up to us which is why all we ask is that you exercise barely even half the level of control that is expected of us and watch your child.

If your child approaches my dog they will not be bitten, and gentle pats will be accepted (I will be there holding my dog and teaching your child how to behave, when the parents 9 times out of 10 are not even in sight) but if their behaviour is rough or teasing and they do not leave when asked they will be returned to you with a whole new vulgar vocabulary, because if I have to traumatise your children to keep them away from my dog (thereby ensuring their safety and the dogs) I will.

Vigilant to an unreasonable degree involves calling back their children from your path as you approach or having to constantly scan for the presence of dogs even when taking care of more than one child. You are expecting parents to facilitate a privilege, not a right.

Khaos, are you saying you would prefer to traumatise a child than to walk somewhere where you would not encounter children. That is horrible.

any walking route is likely to encounter children.
No it isn't necessarily, and dogs are fine walking after dark.

Their concern is that despite all of their efforts to minimize the risk children approach, usually running and waving their arms about, and touch their dog without permission, thus making all precautions pointless.
They are not minimising the risk children pose if they are out in places where they will encounter children or are out at times when children are predictably out playing. They are asking for trouble, and if this has happened to you more than once and if you feel that it is a real problem then seriously, do your dog a favour and walk it elsewhere or at a different time.
And do parents a favour and let them go out with their children without having to worry about one more hazard of the outdoors.

-- children run, and wave their arms. The bloody cheek of them, when they know there are dogs around. Used to be you could do anything as long as you didn't scare the horses, but I see we have now progressed.

You can only speak for yourself about how well behaved your dog is. There are a lot of people far less conscientious than you are about training.

Donnadoon, your hostility towards children is sad. You seem to come from the era when children could be seen but not heard.

We have neighbours with children on all sides, they are always outside often as late as 10pm we cannot leave the house without encountering children. Suggesting that dog owners avoid children at all cost is ridiculous, and at times we enjoy getting to meet polite young ones on walks and let them meet the dog, it is the children that approach without asking that are the problem, especially when they do not leave when asked. My first reaction is never to traumatise the child, but if it is the only way to get them to leave us alone I will.

A child running and waving their arms is fine, a child running at my dog while waving their arms is not.

I am going to have to leave this thread since it seems to be only three people repeating the same point and refusing to listen to the situation in the OP. Thankfully I live in a region full of country folk who understand that dogs are not just a part of life, they have valuable contributions to make. But, like everything in life from cars, fire and tools, to cats, dogs and horses they should be treated with a reasonable level or caution and respect.

Nobody said children had to move out of the way, or stop what they were doing already - its only about what they do when they're directly and specifically approaching a dog.

Not walking towards one going about their own business, not playing somewhere while someone is going past.

Hahahaha. Just had an ACE dog walk that I had to share with you.

0530 this morning. Take Mutt dog out with two 13 weeks old pups (one belongs to my friend, one I am fostering until Sat). We are doing recall training over the fields and its going pretty well. There is a pond at one end of the field so all 3 dogs are filthy, wet and muddy.

On the way back we come across a mother and child of about 7/8 walking their quite elderly collie/spaniel. We (of course) are irresistible to the child - two bouncy puppies - and the child starts to run over. I call out "Sorry, pups aren't trained yet, let me get them on leads"

Child keeps coming. Pups go hurtling off to greet her. Parent just stands still.

Biggest of the two pups jumps up and knocks child over. Smallest jumps straight in to this great game and starts licking child's face. Mutt is barking (but staying away), pups are climbing all over the prone child. Child is beside herself (with joy) and pups going crazy. Finally get pups on leads and we are all filthy, but laughing like loons.

Mother finally come over and starts telling child off for getting dirty. My (childless) friend says "aww it wasn't her fault" and mum snaps "I am WELL aware of that" throwing a look that could kill outright.

Me and friend collapse into giggles (she knows all about this thread) and I say "OK, I'll put the dogs on leads if you do the same for your daughter" mum humphs and walks away and child starts laughing saying "go on mum, put me on a lead go on"

Now I've got to go and wash pond weed off a wriggly pup and grumpy mutt before work. Just thought I might raise a smile this morning

I've just walked my dog as well, a trip was leaving from the playpark beside my house so a group of children getting on a bus were milling about...I moved off the pavement onto a patch of grass to walk so as to give them plenty of room, two children came off the pavement and walked towards me one carrying a stick, the woman with them said, I'm sure you can see the dog if you ask, but don't go annoying it with that stick. One of the children asked if he would bite, I said no but he might lick you because he's very young and really likes children, then (which was actually very much appreciated though not vital) the adult told the child to stroke him behind the ears like he would a cat.

I controlled the dog and warned that he might lick them, the adult in charge of them supervised them - everyone's happy.

"If my child come over to your dog, you are responsible for their safety"

Granted its one or two posters but they say the same thing in virtually all their posts which several others have agreed with

That'd be because it's the law.

Again, FYI:

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

You are liable if your dog hurts them in a public space, so it's a darn good idea to think about either taking responsibility for their safety wrt your dog, or if you are not prepared to do that removing your dog from them

A small pack of dog nuts still seem unable to grasp this and desperately grasp at dog ends of ever more ludicrous doggerel to justify their position.

I admire their dogmatic devotion to their dog-centred dogma but I do think being unable to grasp reality after 39 pages means they are totally barking.

Incidentally, the law is only get tougher on dogs, so this dogged reality distortion is very dumb.