To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

ReindeerBollocks, do you have any friends/relatives who have nice dogs your children could meet to get them a bit more used to dogs?

The child who flaps about a bit is basically saying to any playful dog thats close by 'oooh look at me, chase me' so you need to try and teach them to just stand still or ignore the dog then most dogs will ignore them, I don't know how old your kids are but as you said about walking to school I'm guessing they are old enough to understand if you explain?

The most important bit imo is not touching dogs without checking with the owner, which you've already done.

Other than that just explain to them dogs don't like things shoved in their faces or sudden movements/loud noises and that if they are going to stroke a dog they should always hold their hand out, below the dogs nose level so the dog can sniff them first. The rest of it is just common sense like don't poke them with a stick or pull their hair etc or wave food around in front of a dog.

Thanks for the advice. My DC don't approach dogs they don't know but I was concerned about the child who makes a fuss about keeping away.

Don't have friends with dogs but will implement advice on keeping calm and making sure they don't flap around them. Have been curious about this for a while (should have asked in the doghouse sooner!).

DC are old enough to understand such tasks but might try chatting with a school mum with a dog, to see if they can teach us properly how to interact.

Have taken all advice on board though so thank you.

Reindeer

In the case of your more frightened DC,try to encourage him/her to ignore the dog (easier said than done I know,spider phobic here). But basically keep moving. If the dog approaches then stand still. You might have to positively encourage this initially but it does work.

I grew up in a family where a fair few owned dogs, my aunt who looked after me daily when my parents worked had an Alsatian, so I wasn't unused to big dogs. But that did not stop my 4 year old self being terrified when a Rottweiler came barreling across a field to meet my Nans dog. I remember being terrified,I also remember my Nan repeatedly saying "Alis, it's fine,just stand still like me, that's right stand still,good girl". The dog was perfectly friendly,had a sniff and walked off. I don't doubt that if I'd started running as I so wanted to, it might have ended differently.

Also teach them to sound confident, a firm 'sit' 'no' or 'down' will generally work on most dogs that are off the lead and will stop them jumping up. with my dog down is accompanied by pointing to the ground and most dog owners I've met do that too.

Mine learnt the 'be a tree' thing and it has worked a treat. Think they should cover it in school tbh.

See dallas this is exactly what midnite and I have been saying to an apparently deaf lazyjaney. Hopefully now you have confirmed from a professional perspective she will stop bring such a monumental idiot and start teaching her kids not to run up to and torment a dog who is on a lead and under control

Perhaps the good LtEve would care to explain how come she is having to save dogs from being PTS that were apparently under control and provoked, in that case......

The only monumental idiots on this thread are those who still can't get it through their skulls that any dog that attacks and injures a child, regardless of any "he/she provoked my doggy" bleating, has committed an offence and is liable.

i was being charitable as you clearly do not know UK law. If you are in Oxford, I suggest you acquaint yourself with it.

As she quoted directly from it, I would suggest to you that she does, in fact, know the law.

Are you really this obtuse?

No matter what you think on the matter Oh Lazy one, the law is clear - unprovoked attacks may be a destruction offence. The context of the incident is always taken into account and where a dog bite is seen to have been provoked (i.e. is not an attack), and is reasonably proportionate to the provocation (i.e. multiple aggressive bites / ripping a child's throat out), the dog owner is not liable and the dog will not be destroyed.

Reindeer, if you don't have friends with dogs, try approaching someone in a park who has a dog. Someone hanging about, particularly someone who has kids, and has a dog who is good with them (I'd do a bit of stalking and pick a dog that is acting well with children and seems under control!) and ask them if they would mind if your dc approached the dog - even just standing calmly nearby. Even better if you see the same person a lot, as your dc can get used to them and get better over time. If someone asked me if they could, I'd certainly try to help them as far as I could. Far better that than have them give an out of control dog a "play" signal and getting themselves into any difficulty.

ehem, that should clearly read not multiple aggressive bites / ripping out of throats etc

Fail.

lazy

Talk about flogging a dead horse. You are actually quite wrong. You can stick your fingers in your ears as much and essentially shout "no no I am right" as much as you like. You are wrong.

YANBU I was brought up to understand dogs might bite and even my friends soft as anything retriever wasn't left with us until we were ~12. That seems fairly sensible for that particular (big, but soft) dog.

I d fb warn people about my moggy. He is very calm but he is Top Cat so I did keep a good eye on my friends little one while playing in case any of the play offended his kitty dignity. At the end of the day much less dangerous than a dog, but the key points about teaching the child hold

Bloody hell, Lazyjaney we get it, you don't like dogs and have read an article about this and therefore clearly think you know everything about UK law, repeating it over and over is not going to make us believe you anymore than we did the first time you were wrong!

Perhaps the good LtEve would care to explain how come she is having to save dogs from being PTS that were apparently under control and provoked, in that case......

I'm not quite sure what I am being asked here? I thought my last post was quite clear.

In Feb I was called out to a cornered stray that was terrified, snapping and snarling. He had bitten one person that had tried to grab hold of him. Capturing him was quite traumatic (for him) but once he was calm he was a regular dog but remaind wide eyed and trembling for over an hour. Even though he had bitten the dog warden and PC both agreed that it was a fear response so were happy for me to take him to rescue. The 'would-be' rescuer (that was bitten) wasn't convinced. I can understand that, his hand was a mess. Kids had cornered the dog at the garages, the man had tried to grab his neck and the dog had given him a good bite on the hand. PC was able to persuade bitten man to leave it with us for a while and not immediately call for the dog to be PTS.

Long story short - dog is now rehabilitated. Man who was bitten visited dog a number of times in Rescue and was happy to see the change in him. Dog was not a danger, he was just scared and 'provoked' by the kids that had cornered him and the man that had grabbed him.

Does that answer your question LazyJaney? Like I said, I'm not quite sure what you want.

Actually, having read through some of the more recent comments I think I should make something clear. I am NOT an expert. I am a volunteer. I do what I do for a love of dogs and support to Rescue. Not a specific rescue (although I am affiliated with a specific rescue) but in support of all Rescues and Vets that care for unwanted animals.

If you want EXPERT advice from MN then there are Vets, Behaviourists, Rescuers and Trainers on the Doghouse that could give you what you want. I can too, but only in a 'my experience' way. I don't want to mislead people - it's very important to me that I am honest on MN, no matter what.

I know and understand the law from my contact with my local dog warden - who has become a friend and the local community PC who is a friend and colleague (in my 'day job'). Everything I do if I am asked to go out is done within the law and with the advice and guidance of the people who are trained in and actually do this day to day. My 'boss' at the rescue has been involved in god knows how many legal challenges/cases and is most certainly an expert in this field - but even she gets advice from 'DogsLaw'

I get called out because I am in the area, I have time to help and because I'm not easily scared . My mate gets called for all the same reasons, plus she'll take on the 'unhomeables' (last count 6 dogs, 3 cats and 9 rabbits!) I can't do that yet - but probably will later down the line. In fact those who know me know about RottDog, now she was unhomeable and apparently a dangerous biter ....I took her in, let DD (then 6) love her and gave her 2 good years.

I just don't want to mislead people here. I am a squaddie first and foremost (it pays the bills), a volunteer by choice and knowledgable by osmosis .

I think some people here are selectively reading to suit their own agenda.

I am a dog owner and I love my dog. I don't wish to be accosted by someone's slobbering furry animal as I walk down the street. I was pissed off when I was walking my dog and a massive dog jumped up and put his muddy paws on my new coat as I had to pay for it to be dry cleaned. I recognise that human rights far exceed animal rights and that if my dog was to attack someone unprovoked, it is MY responsibility. HOWEVER, if a child runs up to my dog, tries to grab him, don't be surprised if my dog is less than thrilled. If he were to attack, then I would never blame the child but I would put a small proportion of blame on the adult accompanying the child. Teaching your children how to approach animals does not negate from dog owner responsibility. You could potentially save your child from injury or emotional harm. Why someone would refuse to do that is quite beyond me! IMO, it goes alongside teaching your child to cross the road safely and to put on a seatbelt in the car. Like it or not, animals are part of our lives. To the ignorant parents on here - do your children a favour and help them out a bit because instinctively they just do not know how to approach animals.

^^
the voice of reason, and of understanding where liability lies.

Of course parents are going to teach their kids how to avoid hurt from other peoples animals, but as you say, the liability still lies with the dog owner.

But that is the issue that some of the more dogmatic dog-nuts on here have singularly failed to grasp, and some have been extraordinarily defensive and offensive when I've pointed that out.

LtEve you sound lovely, but I do know that the dog owner is liable if the dog bites a child, whatever the situation.

but I do know that the dog owner is liable if the dog bites a child, whatever the situation

Unfortunately your "knowledge" is flawed. It's not defensiveness, it's truth - the context of the incident is relevant, and there is a dichotomy between an "attack" and a fear response which causes injury.

Now, I recognise that this is a prime example of doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different response, since you are clearly not interested in learning anything here, Lazy, which is a shame, since your knowledge is very flawed, but I still feel it needs saying.

I love dogs I do...they are bloody wonderful creatures, man/womans best friend in fact.
I also love my soon to be 5 kids too...but...ya know...the dog owners out there will understand

lazy there is s huge gap between what you think you know and the truth. You are wrong in your statements which has been pointed out and backed up by several posters and yet you still choose to spout utter rubbish.

If a dog snaps as a result of a fear response cos dome bratty child or adult startles them or hurts them it is the fault of the child/adult not the dog or owner

LazyJaney, why don't you ask These dog law specialists to confirm what you 'know' for us

If a solicitor agrees with you, then we will see reason.

Just ask, hypothetically, if your child ran to my dog without asking me and grabbed his collar, causing my dog to snap at his hand, would I be automatically liable and would be dog be PTS and myself fined, or would be an idiot for allowing your child to that.

Being a solicitor specialising in the subject, I should think he knows the law.

Trevor at DogLaw (Dooin's link) is my Rescue Boss's favourite person in the whole world! He was also recommended to me by a MNer when my brothers dog found itself in a spot of bother. I think the sun shines out of Trevor's (ahem) and would recommend DogLaw to anyone needing legal advice. They are wonderful

Actually, there are quite a few online solicitors offering to take dog bite cases to court as well, and they have opposing points of view.

But having read a few other doggy threads this morning I've come to the conclusion that dog lovers get a sort of reality distortion field going in their heads that make it absolutely impossible for them to look at the world rationally. The absurdity of this threads premise - that others must teach their kids how to handle your potentially dangerous animal - being a case in point.

I think to those who think they know how the law works with respect to their dogs biting other peoples kids and it being the kids fault, I can only say "go on, try it if you are so sure" as it's clear rational argument won't work.

So using LazyJaney's reasoning imagine a dog being walked to heel on a lead by it's owner down a public street. A young child runs up to the dog out of clear sight by the owner and hits the dog repeatedly around the face/nose. The dog tries to back away as the owner tries to put theirself between the child and dog. Dog is cowering, licking lips giving all it's best signals but it doesn't work. Child sticks his/her finger in the dog's eye. In pain and panic the dog bites the child's hand.

You still see the dog/owner is the one at fault?

Canidae Yes unfortunately she does.