In looking forward to free-access abortions clinics on the high street soon

[MadameDefarge]

in order to deal with all those pesky third child pregnancies conceived to extort more money from the tax payer by feckless benefit scroungers?

Come on Dave, have the courage of your convictions...accidents happen as we all know, so we need a change to abortion legislation to allow free access to abortions.

Of course another option is to perform sterilisation on benefit claimants. Or perhaps demand an abstinence pledge for claimants?

Hm. Lots of policy review needed to bring other services into line with this plan.

I haven't disagreed with you about the misogyny inherent in the system, it was just trying to explain a couple of things as you had some misapprehensions about how it works.

It's not my claim that TOP is always less risky than continuing a pregnancy for a woman. That's a fact, google it for multiple references. So a woman cannot be refused a TOP because she will always meet those criteria. Of course doctors can refuse to sign off on an abortion for reasons of their own conscience but one rather imagines that doctors who conscientiously object to TOPs wouldn't be working as doctors providing abortion!

I agree the whole thing is a farce and should be overhauled. But abortion is available here for every pregnancy within the time limit. It's the wording of the act that is unfortunate really.

I did know that fact about TOP. Just not aware it was being used to rubber stamp abortions. So I do thank you for that info.

But we clearly do agree fundamentally. Yippee!

Surely the point is that this new proposed legislation of capping child benefits at 2 kids for those out of work is utter bollocks designed only to capture the voting attention of small minded daily mail readers. Its shite I doubt very much it'll ever come to fruition.
It would be of no economic benefit to the country at all if it did, the complete opposite in fact. Yes OP, your right. And of course they would have to up the limit of when abortions can be carried out past 24 weeks, what if you/your partner loose your employment at 30 weeks??! Or 38 weeks Damnit I know they just need to introduce a special 'drowning at birth' service for all these pesky offspring of the underclasses. Decrease the surplus population and all that.
Now anyway, about corporation tax...

not, so nice to be understood!

btw, why is the tax payer always "hard working"?

I've worked with plenty of lazy bastards over the years, and generally the high up the organisation and as such the better paid, the lazier.

Child, you are a luxury! Now eat this gravel!

You feed them gravel? mine just gets mud.

Yeah, that's a great attitude, you can have an abortion, but only if you feel really really bad about it But by the way, if you get pregnant and can't afford another child, we will make sure that this option is one you will be judged for. No win situation. It demonises women for their biology and poverty.

Its about punishment, really. Punished for getting pregnant by accident, punished for being poor. Then made to run the gauntlet of moral disgust at their choices. whichever they choose.

Madame Defarge i agree with you Every word The mysogyny and classism in the system is fucking mind boggling.

MadamedeFarge, I could not love you more for this thread. That is all.

Children are a luxury?

And there was me thinking they were human beings.

oreocookiez, what's a "benefit family"?

The whole of the UK before last year's Child Benefit cap? Including Shiny Dave, Gideon, and um, you?

Doctors will always have to be involved with TOP though, a change in the law won't change the fact that we'll always need willing doctors.

The court of protection often deals with requests either for a forced abortion against the mothers will or with the mother requesting one.

They often do not find in favour of the vulnerable person,the only difference is nobody involved is allowed to talk about it under threat of prison.

The performer is the second sign offer. There is an extra layer of beaurocracy with women having to be referred but I suppose that's the NHS for you as well, access to anything requires a GP referral normally. So if TOP is still delivered within hospitals then GPs will refer. Could change to a GUM clinic-like system where you can walk in but still NHS provided, or have a mix of both within one TOP clinic. And of course places like Brook and BPAS offer pretty much a walk in service. Money will only be put in to changes in TOP provision though if it is perceived that women have problems accessing TOP as the system now stands, and I don't think that is the case either in reality or in people's perception. I'm not sure the case for the millions it would require is strong enough.

"Ok - just for balance can you tell us why so many families can't have the larger families they want because they simply can't afford it? You know - responsible people of whatever political persuasion." MalcolmTuckersMum

I don't understand this ^

is it people on welfare who cause this? Are you saying that if we strip benefit cheats of their benefits then the government could use that money to let people who 'can't afford it' have more babies?

Not understanding the logic of this statement/argument at all.

I am one of those people who can't afford to have a second child (Am also too old) so guess what... I am not having another child but I am not sitting here blaming people on benefits for me not being able to have another child, how is it in any way their fault and how can anything they do make me be able to afford another child?

chunderella, apologies if I seemed rude! Harder and I got our wires crossed a bit) well, I did anyway, so that influenced my reply to you.

As harder says, the current system is a farce.