In looking forward to free-access abortions clinics on the high street soon

[MadameDefarge]

in order to deal with all those pesky third child pregnancies conceived to extort more money from the tax payer by feckless benefit scroungers?

Come on Dave, have the courage of your convictions...accidents happen as we all know, so we need a change to abortion legislation to allow free access to abortions.

Of course another option is to perform sterilisation on benefit claimants. Or perhaps demand an abstinence pledge for claimants?

Hm. Lots of policy review needed to bring other services into line with this plan.

Not necessarily, no. I personally would have wanted to be sure I was doing the right thing.

Hidden, if this is the case, then we need to get rid of the hypocrisy of the present system, get rid of the silly two doctor rule, and probably safe the nhs some money in terms of administration of a ridiculous system.

We could train benefit claimants children to be chimney sweeps.

Everyone in this country is as capable as each other of affording as many children as they wish MalcolmTuckersMum.

We are all legally entitled to the same minimum amount per child whether it's made up of tax credits/child benefit or a salary.

We could adopt Jonathan Swift's Modest Proposal.

Not everybody gets tax credits. In fact not everybody gets child benefit now. Why on earth would you assume they would? That's a massive assumption.

Red, bit old fashioned, maybe they could strip copper wires for recycling? Useful and green!

What benefit claimants are we talking about here? Aren't the majority of benefits paid out tax credits paid to those in work or does this Bill relate to the unemployed on JSA and IS. Genuine question, haven't been watching the news.

Have you ever been in this position MadameDefarge?

An assumption based on the average wages in this country, where the average family do have access to several of these benefits.

I'm pretty sure that the second doctor will just be a second GP at the practise signing off on what you've just asked - just as any second opinion would be.

When I went to my doctor to get the ball rolling with my pregnancy, I can't remember how he put it, but he made it clear that I had options if this wasn't something I was happy about - I think that aside from doctors with agendas it's not hard to get a termination in this country (perhaps harder in areas with long waiting lists for appointments).

I'm not sure I feel comfortable about capping benefits - the children didn't ask to be here.

Summer, I think its initially for those families where neither parent works at the time of conception.

foslady, I refer you to an earlier post of mine.

You misunderstand me. If people are not receiving tax credits or child benefit that is because they already have a far higher income than the minimum they are assesed to need.

And seeing this is all people on the dole get per child, I'm not entirely sure why the self proclaimed squeezed middle seem to think they're the ones who can't afford more children.

I would imagine the more people you see the better if you are considering an abortion, so you have time and medical people to talk through the process and procedures with you, and can consider the options armed with lots of knowledge.

I know you're trying to drive home a point OP, but I think it's not something you should be able to get at a drop of a hat.

Maybe people should be better informed about contraception, and the financial implications of having that third child, rather than walk-in abortion clinics provided as contraception once it's too late.

Not everybody is average, though. So to assume they are is ridiculous.

But bowler, when government legislation means that more parents will be forced to consider, and request a termination, then we need to make the process as easy as possible.

You can be as well-informed as possible, it does not mean contraception is ever 100%. We know that. Babies will be conceived accidently. Even by "well-informed" parents.

At the very least most people would be entitled to CB. The threshold is something that has been discussed a lot on MN.

MadameDefarge, you only get an increase in CTC and WFTC if you are entitled to claim them in the first place - not all working people get those credits.

I also think that this policy is not a bad one, I didn't have a 3rd child as we could not afford to and get pissed off when I see a relative (on benefits) having her 5th without a second thought due to the financial safety net that is her "right".

monica, turn it the other way, most people who claim benefits are working, with the vast majority of the welfare bill going on pensioners.

So what would your cousin have done with baby no 5 if this legislation was in place now?

Nah, just reopen the orphanages.

Was talking to an elderly bloke whose long-lost brother had tracked him down. Brother had grown up in care believing he must be the child of a young, unmarried mother. He was completely destroyed to learn that actually his parents were married and had nine other children they'd kept - including one after him.

But at the time he was born, he was just one mouth too many. So his parents had taken him to an orphanage.

A one stop abortion shop would be great actually, although Brook do do this already I think. Go in, get the medical bits and counselling signed off, get the info for the procedure itself and go back a couple of days later. More funding for Brook clinics perhaps?

I'm guessing Monica's cousins 5th baby wouldn't have even been on the way if this legislation was in place now. Nor the 4th, possibly not even the 3rd.

I think you make a good point.

Abortion costs around £4-800 privately BTW, obviously the NHS would try and fit everyone in, but I have heard of people feeling forced to go privately due to waiting lists.

I can certainly imagine lots of people would choose to terminate third pregnancies. (unexpectedly pg with a 3r