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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stranger touching DS in station store - v v long, but seeking reassurance that IWNBU

138 replies

GertrudeSlojinski · 14/07/2013 03:01

After a looong day, DS (4yo) and I popped into a store at Victoria Station to pick up a piece of plastic tat little toy I had promised him. DS is standing right next to me looking at one stand, I was looking at the opposite stand. DS and I don't look very alike at all, so it is possible that anyone looking at us could have thought he was unaccompanied (other than the lady i.e. me! standing within 45cm of him!).

Suddenly, out of the blue, a man (white male, wearing glasses, 50s/60s, approx 5'10", wearing a casual suit but of slightly dishevelled appearance) appears/stands next to DS - he is looking higher up the same stand and, without removing his gaze from that higher level, puts his arm around DS and starts to touch/fondle DS's shoulder whilst appearing to pull DS closer to him as though to lead him away. Poor DS froze! It happened in a split second and was clearly deliberate!

I immediately pulled DS away and challenged the man, telling him to get his hands off my son and not deign to touch him again. The man looks at me as though in anger but says nothing. I don't know how to explain it but his reaction made me think that perhaps he was not NT. He offered no explanation/excuse at all (e.g. he thought DS was alone and was trying to help). He then looks over at the stand again in a bid (I assume) to ignore me. I challenge him again, telling him he had no right to approach or lay a finger on my son. He turns to me and his response (said in a low voice but which he deliberately intended me to hear) was, "And why shouldn't I?". This chilled me to the bone and I pointed out that there was a video camera trained directly at us and I would report the incident to the British Transport Police. I turn around to find a member of staff - whilst telling them what just happened and pointing the man out to them, the man slips past us, leaving the store.

At this point, I deliberately made a decision to follow him out of the store. My short-term memory is atrocious and, having been a victim of an assault a few years ago, I remembered how difficult it was to give an accurate eye-witness description of the perpetrators. I almost wanted to leave it be but, given his reaction on being challenged, all I could think was that the man was clearly a risk (be that to himself if he in fact was not NT, or others).

I found him standing in the station concourse staring at the display (without his glasses on), as though looking for a train to catch. I took my phone out and said to him that I was going to take a photo of him and send it on to the BTP (I know you can take photos of people in public areas without requesting their consent, but I wanted to avoid any possibility of my actions being accused as underhand/surreptitious). He appeared to take a step towards me and DS and I say again loudly that he is not to touch my child. I wanted to get as many people's attention as possible. I leave the man staring after DS and I, and we return to the store. I tell the staff again what just happened, that I had taken a photo of the man and that I was going to file a report with the BTP. They reassured me and told me that they would happily give up any CCTV to the BTP to assist. To try and regain some normalcy for DS and reassure him that he had done nothing wrong, DS and I continue browsing.

One of the store staff suddenly approached me and DS and asked if I would recognise the man. I said yes and asked why. Turns out the man had just come back into the store! He was approaching the children's section again but on seeing me and the member of staff looking at him, turns on his heel and leaves the store. He goes to sit on one of the public benches and proceeds to stare into the store.

At this point, I decide that I shouldn't wait to file a report with the BTP. I head back into the station (the man stares at me and DS, and I stared back to show I was not going to be cowed) and approach the ticket barriers and request that the guards contact the BTP. All the while, the man is still sitting on the same bench but, by this time, has turned around/changed his seat to face me and DS. I pick DS up and turn his face away so he can't see the man staring at us, and I explain to him what is going on. A member of the BTP finally turns up after what seems like ages. I look towards the bench but the man appears to have moved on shortly before.

After a brief walk-around, we never did find the man. Long story short, the BTP took a statement from me and I emailed them the pictures there and then. I was nervous that perhaps I had overreacted but they reassured me that I had done the right thing. They said that they would put his details out to the guards at the barriers to be on the look-out should he try to board a train.

Then, half an hour later, I receive a phone call from the Met who appear to imply that it is only worth their pursuing it if I thought there was any adverse intent to the man's actions. The officer I spoke to didn't use the word "sexual" at any point, but it seemed clear to me that that was what he meant. I told him that I could not say with all certainty what the man's intention was, but it clearly could not be positive if he made no attempt to offer any rational explanation about/for his behaviour. I was told they will contact me should anything come up.

I'm not hopeful that the man will be found. I am still shaking and seething about the whole thing. I have, in the past, given DS the "talk" several times about what to do if he is approached by anyone, strangers or not, and that he is to tell them in a loud voice to leave him alone and immediately shout for/come and get me or his father, but my poor 4yo just froze in shock/fear. I feel like I failed to protect DS, and worse, may even have put him at further risk by going after the man to take a photo. All I could think the whole time was that I wanted to hit the man for touching my baby and make sure he doesn't get the chance to do that to someone else's child. Now finding it hard to sleep as I keep replaying the incident in my head. I know in my heart of hearts that my actions were probably not unreasonable, but some reassurance would be much appreciated.

OP posts:
SixPackWellies · 15/07/2013 12:50

You are not being melodramatic. You are RIGHT to pursue this.

Jan49 · 15/07/2013 13:14

OP, I think you did amazingly well and you're not being melodramatic. Reading your post sends chills down my spine.

It sounds like the police are trying to treat it as nothing, like a man just touched your ds's shoulder in passing, no big deal. But that's not what it was at all from your description. I'm not sure why but what struck me reading this is that the man was testing to see what he could get away with, as in could he walk away with a child. Then one time he'll do it and it won't be a test.Sad I do hope the police take this more seriously and try to find him.

mummytime · 15/07/2013 13:43

You are not being melodramatic. Unfortunately some police are much better than others.

I grew up in London and then lived in Birmingham for a while and actually was surprised at how great Surrey police are when I moved here. However it does sound as if you have got through to someone who is listening properly at last with BTP.

chicaguapa · 15/07/2013 13:53

YANBU. Keep going as that man is still preying on other children and is a threat to them.

It sent shivers down my spine too! Your poor DS having a horrible stranger touch him and making him freeze with fear!

hernow · 15/07/2013 14:00

OP, Gertrudelojinski", you are amazing. So many of us would doubt ourselves and end up leaving it. Pursue. Don't drop it. On behalf of your DS and others please don't drop. I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I cannot believe all that has happened and it goes to show as mummytime* said it is a sad fact that some police are much better than others. If there is one thing I know it's that MNetters will be here anytime you want to talk and thank you for all you have already done. Without mums like you we would be in an even sorrier state. Plus it has given me courage that if ever I was to be so unfortunate I could do as you have done.

Hope this does not go on and on for you. You have done the right thing.

Empress77 · 15/07/2013 14:11

OP your post literally brought me tears, heartbreaking to think of being in that situation, how awful for you and ds. You were amazing to take a photo, I dont think id have thought of that id have been so panicked. Definietly persue it, its sounds really creepy. Well done for protecting your ds so well.

Mhysa · 15/07/2013 14:20

" I feel like I failed to protect DS, and worse, may even have put him at further risk by going after the man to take a photo."
Not at all, your one brave Lady! Well done you, hopefully BTP will be on alert and hopefully the creep will be aware of that.

I had an similar insedent on a London bus this guy (looked homeless and on something) chased me and DD all around a almost empty bus, and tried to grab her (she was 7 at the time) luckily the bus driver looked us in his cab and wouldn't let him off the bus untill the police came, but the scum was just charged with public disorder as his intentions couldn't be proved, the wpc said, when someone is on some thing, that can be there defence Hmm it still scares me to this day.

If it hadn't been for the bus driver, I'm not sure I would have had the courage to do as you did OP, you should be proud of yourself and you DS! And DD recalls nothing of the insedent (6 years ago now) so just re inforce stranger danger to your DS and tell him he did right freezing and I'm sure he will come away from this knowing his Mummy is there to protect him and feels safe for it x

edam · 15/07/2013 14:22

Gertrude, you did the right thing and I'm so glad you've been persistent with the BTP. Really odd the PCSO giving you a gmail address - wtf?

wharrgarbl · 15/07/2013 15:04

Definitely not being melodramatic - there is something wrong with this man, and I really think he was looking for targets, from what you described.
The police bloody well should be taking this seriously.

theboutiquemummy · 15/07/2013 15:36

Firstly fantastic that you called back n you have stuck to your guns

Secondly I'd be tempted to complain if they don't follow this up

Good luck we are all rooting for you if you need any help just ask someone's bound to know x

Rootatoot · 15/07/2013 15:42

OP you were v brave and level headed in your reactions. Not in the least melodramatic. The kind of thing that most of us would not compute at the time but would have thought about later and wished we'd reacted as you did.

Keep AT THE POLICE to do something. We're behind you. You have good evidence.

Did you give the manager of WHSMith a picture of the guy? I think that would be worth doing so staff could keep a look out for him.

I had an incident many years ago which I still wonder about. I was 19 and a student. A weird guy approached me in the street and tried to 'lure' me to a location round near the river, to do some 'modelling'. He had bad teeth and was scruffy. Not the kind of guy to be doing promos. I reported it to the police station. Woman behind counter totally dismissive but her Sgt came over, and took it more seriously, when they said there had been no 'events' at all in that area in the last few days. The guy was def up to no good, just hope he didn't ever succeed in doing anything bad.

Solari · 15/07/2013 15:58

I know part of your worry is that you feel you perhaps risked further danger to take a photo of the man involved.

Can I just say, as a parent myself of a small child, that I am deeply grateful to people like you who, despite your own fear, think of the bigger picture, and of other children who may be at risk. I have every admiration for your actions, and hope you feel much better now. Flowers

LIZS · 15/07/2013 16:05

What a good job you called again . Do WHSmith have cctv inside ? You're definitely doing the right thing by persisting.

SarahAndFuck · 15/07/2013 16:08

You did absolutely the right things.

It's shocking that they don't seem to be reacting to this with as much concern as it needs.

hollyisalovelyname · 15/07/2013 16:09

Gertrude I shall repeat what I wrote yesterday to you. You are a hero. Don't give up.....Evil triumphs because good people do nothing.

Rootatoot · 15/07/2013 16:15

DH thinks you should just tweet or facebook the guy's picture. Not sure I agree entirely as that could give rise to vigilantism (is that the correct sp?) but I am tempted to tweet a link to this thread. If people understand there is that risk, then they could be more vigilant.

BridgetBidet · 15/07/2013 16:51

My God you were amazingly brave and had fantastic presence of mind to behave as you did.

It makes me so angry the BTP are not following him up and identifying him. Even if he is just given a stern talking to now at least he would be identified and on their books should the worst happen and a child did disappear. I'm absolutely furious they're not following this up.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS · 15/07/2013 17:00

Yanbu at all. Well done for being so pro active. I am really impressed by the way you handled the situation. I hope the police collar him before he commits a crime.

rundontwalk · 15/07/2013 17:12

You are a brilliant mum,firstly for your initial response & secondly for not letting it drop.

Your post made my stomach drop-it was chilling. This man is clearly a danger.

Thank you for what you've already done & huge hugs (I don't care if there not mumsnetty) it must have been terrifying.

rundontwalk · 15/07/2013 17:12

They're not there.

GingerBlondecat · 15/07/2013 17:31

(((((((((((((((Hugs ))))))))))))))

Flowers

if you get no where with the higher up police department, a word to the Media would get things moving.

Please persist, even tho it hurts [:(]

DelayedActionMouseMaker · 15/07/2013 17:56

You are not being melodramatic, it sounds as though your report was totally mishandled. Do peruse it, next time a parent may be more distracted or feeling unwell or in the middle of an argument or phone all and not be a vigilant...the consequences could be awful.

DelayedActionMouseMaker · 15/07/2013 17:57

Pursue it. Bloody ipad!

Yonihadtoask · 15/07/2013 17:58

Gosh OP. What a dreadful thing to happen.

I hope you and your DS are not too shaken up by this.

Am disappointed with the is lack of interest by the police. Surely this should be followed up?

Stay strong.

GertrudeSlojinski · 15/07/2013 20:50

I got a call back from a Detective Sergeant. It turns out:

  • My pictures were definitely not logged, nor the details about what he said to me and his subsequent actions i.e. returning to the store, staring me and DS down etc;
  • They had not requested CCTV from WH Smith;
  • They had not warned or informed the staff in WH Smith about what happened;
  • They don't believe the incident warrants circulating the man's picture nationwide (which I had never asked for in the first place Hmm, and totally neglecting the fact they had not even bothered to pass it on to the WH Smith staff);
etc

The Detective, despite trying so hard to appear to make the right noises (eg "I understand it must have been distressing", "his behaviour does sound strange", "we all get protective when it comes to our children" etc etc), finally lost me when he said it did not appear to be an "assault assault". Without trying to be too sarcastic and make a muchness of having studied criminal law in the distant and not-so-distant past, I explained to him that the man had put myself and DS in fear for our immediate safety/of harmful contact, had unlawfully touched my son and I believed his actions to be intentional, deliberate and manipulative, regardless of whether he was NT or not, so if the Detective felt so inclined, he had enough to go on to potentially pursue the man for assault AND battery. At that point, I realised that my anger made it likely that I would say something I could later regret, and I ended the conversation saying that I had given them more than enough information to go on, wanted the report to be amended to reflect what had happened, wanted them to request CCTV from WH Smith, and would not object to them contacting me in the future should anything come of it or if they needed me to make an identification.

I can safely say that my faith in the police has not been restored.

Please don't get offended if I don't respond to any further posts tonight. My sleeping patterns have been atrocious for several years, but having had a few hours' of restless sleep the night of the incident, and half an hour's sleep last night, I'm definitely going to attempt to do better tonight.

And, in case a certain family member is reading this (I'm well aware you're also a MNetter and probably know about this thread, either through reading it yourself or through friends who recognise the details from a certain social network), thank you for suggesting that I "should have been watching DS". Next time, I'll make sure I'm standing on top of DS ... (as opposed to right next to him with my eyes on him Hmm)

Will be namechanging at some point, but thanks to everyone for your kind words and support.

OP posts: