The great british menu - food poverty... AIBU?

[Bogeyface]

I hate myself for thinking this but, AIBU to think that Lady Whatsername who said in the 90's that the reason poor people couldnt manage on benefits was because they lacked the ability to cook good simple nutritious meals, may have had a point? The way she said it was totally U and she was very sneery, but I cant help thinking that there might be a grain of truth in it.

Of the three families I have just seen in this program I saw what 2 of them ate in a day. one was a mother and daughter who's only meal of the day was a microwave burger each costing £1 each, and the other was a family where the children had fish fingers or nuggets and oven chips, while the parents had tinned veg.

£14 per week that the first family spent is enough for a bag of baking potatoes, some basics pasta, baked beans, passatta, a pack of frozen sausages, a bag of porridge oats, some cheese, some sandwich meat such as Haslet from the deli counter (35p per 100g in my tesco) and milk. The DD would be getting free school meals if I heard correctly about her age and their income. Far healthier, more filling and more than one meal a day!

The second family, again, for the price of nuggets, fish fingers and oven chips they could make a spag bol using basics ingredients that would feed them all well.

RAther than focussing on the cost of food, which is only going to rise, surely it would be better to focus on educating people who eat badly because the food they choose is more expensive than cheaper, healthier alternatives that require a bit of cooking knowledge?

I haven't disagreed that education helps people live better. I disagree violently with your apparent conviction that education's all it takes. And, I'm afraid, I do think you're out of touch. You said you were a single mum to DS - so, what was that, 16 years ago? Things are much worse now, as you surely must be aware. I don't believe that you, with your army of kids, know very much at all about how I live on my own. You're showing a profound lack of compassion for the near-illiterate young mums in the village. What works for you doesn't work for everybody - you seem to be doing a poverty version of what middle-class poverty-bashers do!

I'm surprised that this is you.

I do not have an army of kids. WTF?!

I am not showing a lack of compassion. I am living the life of the "scrounger".

I said that education would be far more productive than moaning about a lack of money when those in power dont care. Education is not just about school. It can be about non patronising TV programs for example.

£14 per week that the first family spent is enough for a bag of baking potatoes, some basics pasta, baked beans, passatta, a pack of frozen sausages, a bag of porridge oats, some cheese, some sandwich meat such as Haslet from the deli counter (35p per 100g in my tesco) and milk. The DD would be getting free school meals if I heard correctly about her age and their income. Far healthier, more filling and more than one meal a day!

Baking potatoes - you need an oven and enough fuel to bake a potato.

Frozen sausages - you need a freezer and be able to pay the electric to run it.

Haslet from the deli counter, passatta, porridge oats - you need to be able to get to a supermarket and back, when did you last go to a supermarket on a bus? Return fares here are nearly £4, a big chunk of the £14, not to mention the 10 min walk to/from the supermarket from the nearest bus stop.

I agree there are a lot of people who would benefit from being able to cook, but life isn't that simple.

You need to have enough electricity to run a fridge a freezer and even if you microwave the potatoes, that's 10 mins not 3. It all adds up.

YABU OP because you clearly have no idea.

Bogey, if you start from a position of having had money it is always easier:
you have a freezer, a fridge, a cooker, a variety of pots and pans and implements,
you've done your experimenting in days when you could afford to give your kids some toast and fruit if they don't eat their dinner,
You can bulk buy
You have a store cupboard to fall back on
You can pay bills by direct debit not key meter (so they are cheaper)
Maybe you've got some veg or herbs in your garden.
You've probably for insurance to cover you if your cookery etc breaks.

All of these things matter hugely.

I'm not saying decent practical education doesn't help, because it's vital too, but it's a separate issue to long term food poverty which is a massive issue and we need to do more about.

£50-70 a week for food is a completely different scenario to £14. Yes, you still have to be careful but it's nothing like the same kind of thing. With food you can't just divide the budget by the number of people; it works out much cheaper per person to feed 6/7 than to feed 2. 60p for herbs out of £50 is a very different proposition than 60p out of £14.

Education helps in various ways, but it doesn't make £1=£5.

This thread has convinced me. It's easy to make things work hypothtetically if you don't have to live it. Probably not possible if you actually do.

Having been a student for 4 years made a big impact on my understanding of food and cooking on a budget, OH was a student for much longer.
So if I'm having an austerity month, I cook my student recipes.
DD has learned the same lesson, she can feed herself well on £15 a week but usually budgets for £20.

'Its all very well for people to imagine how well they would manage on a budget. Like its some sort of hipster challenge.
If you have a freezer and a fridge that works, a store cupboard full of spices and seasonings, a well stocked kitchen and you are not so laid low by aneamia and depression that the idea of throwing together a risotto makes you want to pass out.'

Well said MrsDeVere. I never ate baked potatoes as a student unless it was a gathering where we loaded an oven with potatoes and pooled our fillings. Baking a potato takes a huge amount of cooking time, likewise casseroles.
We predated microwaves.
My austerity months are offset by having all the items mentioned, and DD goes back to uni fully stocked with condiments and spices.

Yes in an ideal world you need a store cupboard, a well equipped kitchen and money to buy in bulk but IF you are resourceful it is possible to cook from scratch economically.

Chilli con carne
Spaghetti bolognaise
Lasagne
Cottage pie

All use similar basic ingredients, just different spices, the first two can be cooked in a large pan, the second two in the oven.

I buy a huge sack of rice for £17 however if I had transport problems or money problems I would order a smaller sack online from the ethnic isle of tesco for£6ish. Huge bags of value pasta and lasagne sheets ate very reasonable.

I use nutmeg in my spag Bol. I buy 6 while nutmegs for £1 but I wait until they are buy one get one free, I probably only use 3 a year.(Mace is similar) I also use chicken livers and pancetta however it is very good without. I have used bacon off cuts, you can use garlic but technically garlic is not required, a few Italian herbs and tomato purée is fine. Would I pay £2 for a small pot of herbs now? NO I grow a few or buy a huge bag from an ethnic store or a small value pot for a few pence. If I was unemployed I would club together with friends and family and buy in bulk, I am very comfortable but I buy good ingredients economically if I was struggling I would buy cheaper items and less of them economically.

I am sure it is easy to feel worn down by budgeting if you are struggling but I wonder is there a lack of resourcefulness and dare I say intelligence
Too?

Baked potatoes. I cook mine in the microwave, spray with olive oil and rub with sea salt and then cook them in a very hot oven for 20 mins on a cast iron pizza tray, they come out gorgeous and crispy. Do I buy special baking potatoes at 50p - 75p each NO I select potatoes on offer which are medium sized and do a whole tray for a couple of pounds.

Microwaves are a often given away free on Freecycle.

Please don't tell me potatoes are an expensive meal.

olive oil
very hot oven
cast iron pizza tray

You need to have the resources to spend £6 (or £17) alone on just rice (and pay the delivery cost, and have a debit card). With £14 a week to spend you just cannot buy in bulk and save money that way. You have to buy the much more expensive (relatively) tiny bag of rice because you need all the money you have to go on food for that week, not food to last the next 3 months. And you need to be able to carry the food home too.

Or a baked potato. What if you have no oil or seasoning? These things can really stretch a tight budget. And what if you don't have a microwave and a oven? What if you can't afford to run the microwave for 10 minutes and then cook something in the oven for 20 minutes? What are you going to put in the baked potato? Things all add up.

As has been said many times on here, it's very easy to go on about resourcefulness and education but it's often impossible to achieve the kind of savings people are imagining when you do not have the flexibility to buy in bulk and aren't dealing with a pre-payment meter and very little money for fuel.

As for those sodding key metres! They charge you to put the feckers in and the they charge you more for the gas/electric you use.

they just robbed you blind those bastards things

weprobably lived in food poverty when dd1 was small well we did but we bought cheap and ate ok but it isn't easy it is fucking depressing if im honest ,

The miserable and grinding aspect of trying to eat for £14 a week every week also takes a real psychological toll. One of the consequences of this kind of misery is that it actually reduces your ability to resist temptation. There have been studies done that show that it is much easier to say no to things you know aren't a good idea (but that would be enjoyable) when life is hard than when life is easier. For this reason it is actually harder for people who are barely scraping by to look past the (tasty) microwaveable burger and eat some frozen carrots and sweetcorn with no seasoning.

This is another reason why my family eating bloody lentils for 3 weeks is not comparable to someone who would have to do the same for the foreseeable future (and that's ignoring the fact that, in reality, the very poor family's situation is always much worse because of fuel costs and the lack of a cupboard boasting garam masala and turmeric, etc to make the lentils into interesting meals). It isn't that I'm somehow better than them; I have more resilience because life doesn't grind me down to anything like the same extent.

I got so depressed reading this I had to stop and post so I hope I'm not repeating.

Seriously think every one who posts a value brand shopping list adding up to 14 quid should put their mouths where the money is and live like that for at least a month.

Dare you. Put everything away.

Not just in the kitchen we'll get to the food stiff in a moment, but everything in your house. You can keep your mobile but only spend the equiv of £5 top up a month for emergencies and you cannot use the landline or broadband etc. So don't Be calling up friends for a chat or to arrange someone to give you a lift... That'd be a luxury in the first instance and cheating in the second. Lol.

Find you and DC three outfits including school uniform but you are only allowed one pair of shoes. Choose carefully for DC cos they won't be able to take part in games if you choose dress shoes, but don't choose too flimsy because if it rains they're going to be a bit damp for days. No you can't put the heating on or dry them in the tumble dryer because that, the washing machine and dishwasher are off limits for your trial month. Its a great fun activity for the DC to wash up after a meal, all the bubbles and water bear that in mind for when they get a bit bored by day 2.

You can keep a bottle of value shampoo, toothpaste and one bar value soap. No other toiletries and cosmetics allowed. You can keep ONE loo roll for a fortnight. A 2 pack must last the month and a pack of value pads for your period. I'm not going to be harsh and ask you to find any washing powder, washing up liquid or one universal cleaning product ( bleach is probably best all rounder) out of your 14 a week for food but if we were doing it for real we'd only use value brands and it's tough choice which to get.
You might not smell quite as flowery as useful but careful attention to hygeine should mean you and the house are clean.

Now put on one of your three outfits and walk to the nearest shop if your choice and buy up your value items as per your list suggestion. You'll be a bit sweaty but you can hand wash the clothes when you get in later and air them to dry somewhere.

If the DC are thirsty eith sll this walking make sure you give them a good glass of tap water you cam get this free from most places if you say you need to take medicine. If they get cheeky and Ask for a snack, or a toy, a book or to go swimming you must tell them NO and remind them of their good fortune that they have a couple of value peach slices for pudding later tonight. If they're bored with no toys or even a book to read get back out there and enjoy the free facilities of your local park even If that does mean walking another couple of miles each way and heaven help you IV they get dog muck on their shoes or clothes. Hope you chose bleach as the universal cleaner... Lol.

And If you've got your period and you've been walking for miles but you've not been able to change your pad as often as you'd like ( or have had to use a bit if your weekly rolled up loo roll as a stop gap ) you may be chaffed and a bit sore but it would be lazy of you not to engage with the DC. Next, They'll be running wild in the streets, possibly hanging over a neighbours back gate sniffing longingly at their BBQ and Pestering your neighbours DC to play in the hope they get offered a lolly or drink of squash instead of water or OMG a glass of pop!

Come on, call them back in for their third value mince and tinned tomato based yum of the week. Don't forget the tinned peach slice!

Happy days.

Alwayscheerful i cook my baked potatoes like you I just use the potatoes from my bag and I wouldnt go out and buy special baking potatoes

One of my cheap meals is Tina pasta
Tin tuna -80p
Bag of value pasta -40p
Tim tomatoes -35p
Cheese sauce (make my own but you could buy packet mix -40p)
Tin sweetcorn -20p

So £2.25 for a big pan of pasta that feeds 2 adults and 3 small children for at least 2 meals and very easy to make.

Likewise a beef stew can be made for £5-6 and do us 3 meals

jojane

How much did your big pan cost?
Do you add salt and pepper or other seasoning?

Mrs jay - do you eat the skins?

Ohmergerd, - your post made me very sad, yes I suspect it's more fun being frugal or resourceful when you have money in the bank but bargain shopping and cooking from scratch have seen me through some tough times too.

And the packet mix of cheese sauce... What else do you need to actually make it up?

What kind of cheese do you use, and where do you buy it? For 5 people I'd use up at least £2-worth of edible non-poncey cheese to make a sauce, and that's not counting the cost of milk, flour and butter. I've never seen a tin of sweetcorn for 20p either. Pulling random figures out of the air won't actually help feed a family.

I think OhMerGerd has it for the reality of living in perennial poverty.

My biggest pan actually was £1 from a charity shop years ago, used to hae a glass lid too until DH dropped it. I did say that using a packet sauce mix would be cheaper so didn't put the costings for homemade mix, no I don't put any salt or pepper in the pasta, stopped adding when kids were babies and never started again. You would need milk too which I forgot but when things have been right I water milk down with water, no one ever noticed even on cereal etc. just checked tesco, Tim sweetcorn is now 32p which has gone up since I last noticed the price.