The great british menu - food poverty... AIBU?

[Bogeyface]

I hate myself for thinking this but, AIBU to think that Lady Whatsername who said in the 90's that the reason poor people couldnt manage on benefits was because they lacked the ability to cook good simple nutritious meals, may have had a point? The way she said it was totally U and she was very sneery, but I cant help thinking that there might be a grain of truth in it.

Of the three families I have just seen in this program I saw what 2 of them ate in a day. one was a mother and daughter who's only meal of the day was a microwave burger each costing £1 each, and the other was a family where the children had fish fingers or nuggets and oven chips, while the parents had tinned veg.

£14 per week that the first family spent is enough for a bag of baking potatoes, some basics pasta, baked beans, passatta, a pack of frozen sausages, a bag of porridge oats, some cheese, some sandwich meat such as Haslet from the deli counter (35p per 100g in my tesco) and milk. The DD would be getting free school meals if I heard correctly about her age and their income. Far healthier, more filling and more than one meal a day!

The second family, again, for the price of nuggets, fish fingers and oven chips they could make a spag bol using basics ingredients that would feed them all well.

RAther than focussing on the cost of food, which is only going to rise, surely it would be better to focus on educating people who eat badly because the food they choose is more expensive than cheaper, healthier alternatives that require a bit of cooking knowledge?

HoldMeCloser - jounalists love confirmation bias, they have a headline already in their heads, so then need to find examples for their headline. It doesnt mean that it reflects the reality of the situation

EduCated, yes there are people going hungry, those with no family network, but you have to realise that these people get either 0 euros each month, or 400-500 euros per month, if they are lucky, not 2k each month. The problems in Spain are due to a lack of cash flow for these people.

The problems that British people face are not monetry, they are due to a lack of familial and societal support and/or poor financial planning and a general lack of motivation and skills. Slightly different

The money is there, but people dont look after each other when times are hard

Also, there's a lot of over-processed foods in these 'budget' shopping lists. All the value-branded-type products - white bread, white pasta, white rice, ready meals - are basically the equivalent of spooning sugar down yourself. Not good as a long-term nutritional measure.

And what confirmation biases do the charities and food banks who have stepped in to stop people starving suffer from? Are they inventing the people at their door?

At least you have admitted people ARE going hungry. Because of "cash flow", but still.

mijas I disagree with quite a lot of what you say, but I wouldn't disagree with your summation that there is a lack of familial and societal support. I think you're right.

I think this began with Thatcherite politics. We were all encouraged to believe that the acquisition of wealth was the definition of success. If that meant moving hundreds of miles away from your family, so what. If that meant shoving granny in a home, so what. To be fair to Thatcher, she somewhat naively believed that a safety net for the poor would be found through trickle-down wealth in the form of philanthropy and charity. Alas, history has shown that most people fight hard to keep their wealth and amass more of it rather than spread the benefits around. In the meantime, however, the notion of families looking after their own and communities bonding together has been significantly damaged.

Ironically, it is often among the least wealthy that more suport can be found. Long-standing unemployed communities (e.g. former coalfaces) may not have any money but they are established communities where people dont' move much and they DO help each other out - whether it's lending a tenner for the electric meter or inviting an extra person for dinner.

Contrast that to the once-successful middle class family who have relocated several times only for redundancy to strike, and who suddenly find themselves alone and without any long enough established friendships or family to fall back on.

But everyone will soon be in the same boat. With the introduction of the bedroom tax, those on benefits will soon be moving around like pinballs as well, further eroding their communities and support networks.

right well to move on from talking about it and with reference to the list discussed further down the thread....is there anyone on here for whom to £20 tesco delivery would make a serious difference? I am happy to sign on the dotted line....PM me, and if you don't want to give your address then I am sure MNHQ will mediate the transaction....

before anyone says it, I know you can't tell who is who on the internet but for 20 quid I am willing to chance it...

Dahlen

You could also say that those unwilling to relocate are those doomed to failure. People have migrated for as long as humans have inhabited the earth. I would say that staying put is far worse than moving about but all IMHO of course.

I say this as someone who has moved about a fair bit. You make friends, support people and make communities by being proactive and making it your business to connect with people. I don't see that it makes a great deal of difference other than your options being more limited if you're not the type to travel.

I agree Techno but in the past it tended to be groups of people, not so much individuals, so support networks went too.

The real change began with the industrial revolution, which is also when the nuclear family began to supersede the extended. It is something that continued throughout the 20th century and then accelerated rapidly as that century reached its conclusion.

We can't turn back the clock and we can't change the world, but there is a lot we can do to foster better community links. At the moment, though, we are undermining those efforts. The short-term gain achieved by axing funding for community initiatives or introducing HB caps for example will have far bigger consequences. Loss of social cohesion means an increase in poverty and an increase in crime.

I've moved about a lot too. I've never found it difficult to make friends. But if you move regularly, it's unlikely you'll have established the sort of friendship you can call on in a dire emergency. You may also be working such hours that make it difficult to socialise and develop those community links. And once you have DC, unless you can afford childcare outside of work, you may find yourself completely isolated.

What a lovely offer, ICBINEG! :)

And how shameful that it even needs to be thought of in a wealthy country, whose people have willingly contributed to a system that promised to eradicate poverty.

Exactly Dahlen, you can trace most of Britain's poverty problems back to the industrial revolution. There is a mentality in Britain that people are commodities only good for working, and individuals actually think that about themselves and value it

The magic of human interaction with each other, and with their environment has gone somewhat as people want to protect what they have and are scared of letting people into their lives

I often feel that life in Britain revolves around what people are entitled to, what the law is, what people can and cannot do legally and should and hould not do socially. It is only since I have left the country that I have realised how strange it is. AIBU is an excellent place to study such a society ;)

Lovely thing to do ICBINEG, please do be careful. Do you think it's worth starting a separate thread for this - maybe get MNHQ on board?

mijas99

That is a really depressing view and one that I've never had myself.

The problems that British people face are not monetry, they are due to a lack of familial and societal support and/or poor financial planning and a general lack of motivation and skills. Slightly different.

My problems are ENTIRELY monetary. I have great support, excellent FP skills and buckets of motivation.

I'm a foreigner living here happily and it does not describe the country I know at all.

It is easy when you're an expat to slip into lazy generalisations.

This is a problem facing MANY first world countries (though Britain is among the very richest).

Luis, you should try sleeping on your cousin's sofa for a few years.

Or going to more car boot sales.

luis I don't think MNHQ will 'operate' a scheme like this, because they worry about people being duped and being responsible.

I think if I start a thread saying who wants free food it would similarly go pear shaped.

I was just moved by some of the things said on this thread and so wanted to offer to the people on here in the first instance.

So seriously people of this thread. If a parcel of basics would make a difference to you then PM me!

could it be run like the xmas thread? maybe more people would get involved then. i don't have the energy to offer to help coordinate things but I am also happy to send a parcel meanwhile,
pm me

Yes take your point ICBINEG

My cousin lives in a cardboard box in the middle t' road HoldMe

Luis, my problems are entirely monetary as well. We are both educated, motivated, have good budgetary skills and we have family and community support. (I am an active church member with a close knit church family as well). we just don't have enough money coming in to meet our needs.

All this talk of families, motivation, etc. is very patronising, to be honest. I think it's easy to pronounce judgement when you don't even live in the same country and are removed from the day to day realities.

Gobby, I've been to Welfare Rights, it was them who told me to appeal the DLA decisions for me. They've helped me with the children in the past as well. They are really good but really under pressure here. One of the problems is that you just get so worn down fighting for things. MY kids on the spectrum are all at the very high functioning end, so people don't ever think that there is anything wrong with them or that they need extra support and there are no services available in our area for us. I had to take them out of school because they were being so badly let down. Nobody wants to know, really. So we just struggle on. it's all exacerbated by my ME and fibro. DS4 hardly sleeps and has constant meltdowns over everything from the sound of other people's breathing to what DD watches on the telly. he won't stay in a room on his own, won't go to the toilet on his own, doesn't really understand time... I could go on but even his psychologist doesn't have any help for us, she only wants him to go to a social group 2 buses and a half our walk away which he HATES and which causes screaming tantrums every time we try to take him.

Sorry, that was all completely off the point. it's just that being skint makes everything more difficult. We weren't even this hard up when DH was a practising alcoholic who was also addicted to drugs and unemployed - at least I could work a bit then and make ends meet. This is ridiculous.

Poverty has more than a cost to physical health - my grandmother was widowed at 40, left with two children and no welfare state to help her.

She got on her bike and got a job. Borrowed money, went to the states and did 2 jobs to keep them financially afloat (just) My mothers letters to her sister (who was a scholarship girl working as a ballet dancer) are heartrending. She was alone when home from school, would watch hours of TV while her mother worked. My grandmother was frequently depressed to the point they didn't celebrate Xmas. They moved around all the time chasing work.

My mother has anxiety and depression. My granny was the same.

It's very glib to tell people to move away, or sleep on floors, (although thousands do) there is a real human cost.

Sleeping sofas is the sort of thing you could do as a single person, before you have children. Once there are children involved it makes everything more difficult.