To feel sad to see 5 year old girl in hijab

[INeedSomeSun]

Probably will get flamed for this & iabu as its not my business.
I am not racist in any way. I am Asian myself and have many Muslim friends.

Growing up, I never saw any muslim girls with hijabs. This is a trend which has been growing since the late 90s.

I know that the meaning behind the hijab is to protect modesty and show committment to Islam. It is supposed to be the girls/womans decision after much thought and dedication.

At 5 years old they are still getting changed in the classroom for PE and she won't be able to do this now with boys around. How will she play and do PE freely? She has been singled out by the views of her parents.
Also, she will barely know what religion means, so she has not made an informed decision for herself.

Normally she is chasing about with my DS and other kids before school.Today she was just stood there, perhaps embarrassed or told not to?
I felt very sad

Boomba - why?

Finally, it is interesting that there is never the same level of concerns about Sikh boys in Patkas or Sikh men in turbans.

I went to school with a sikh boy. One day he was messing about in the playground with the other boys and one grabbed his head covering (didn't know what it was called) and it came off. He had the most beautiful waist-length hair, which would hardly be practical at school would it? It wasn't concealing any other part of his face or body so I can't see that it is the same thing at all. I don't think it was to avoid girls lusting after him . As far as I know covering hair applies to both sikh men and women so it's not a form of control of one over the other.

I like these women

"One of my SIL wears the haik but she has private outdoor space where she can uncover."

This sort of talk really troubles me. She can uncover anywhere.

For those wondering why a husband might not want his wife to wear niqab, the recent case in France where a woman suffered a miscarriage after being attacked by two men for wearing niqab might be a clue.

The likes of the EDL frequently abuse women who appear Muslim in the street and attacks are rising at the moment

I've had some vile things said to me, yet funnily enough, never when I'm with my husband.

On a lighter note, hijab fashion is indeed huge business and there quick a few Muslim women with huge followings on You tube who do hijab tutorials and the like.

I have to say, I live in an area with a huge Muslim population and I see hijabis doing everything, from working in Asda, to being hospital consultants. Even the city Rollerderby team has a hijabi in it.

Likewise, niqabis are generally SAHMs ( although a good amount have home businesses, you'd be surprised) and I see them out and about doing normal SAHM things.

I just don't recognise the doom and gloom picture some here are portraying.

And before someone says "What about Afghanistan?" A country that has been at war for 30 years has far more problems then excess fabric. Ditto the situation in Saudi. We do the people in these countries no favours by claiming their problems and any possible solutions are so one dimensional.

I wear a hijab, for personal reasons. I don't wear it to stop men's lustful gazes because 1) I don't look so hot underneath 2) I am responsible for myself and not for them.
I don't like my dd (5) wearing it, and I wouldn't want her to because she wouldn't understand it. she wants to copy mummy at times and dresses up but no one is forcing her.
it is sad to see kids who are made to wear it, it is also sad to see little girls in heels, suggestive clothing etc. From my xperience, u can't force hijab on children, especially in the uk because they will soon be grown up enough to decide wether to wear it or not. I grew up in the 80s wen wearing hijab or any ethnic clothing was embarrassing and usually led to a beating. (Remember paki bashing?). I think people are now free to wear whatever they want and identify themselves as Muslims or whatever with pride in a way they couldn't before. it has become a symbol of pride and identification for us.
There are people who make girls wear them from a young age. however, everyday women in islam are increasing their knowledge about islam. changing and challenging traditional views on women in islam. islam is not against women. however, the intrinsic male role of protection of women has sadly turned into the control and manipulation of women. this is being challenged all the time. I find the freedom from expectations to look good, flirt etc extremely liberating because people just don't bother with me!

finally, I hate the Muslim male bashing that goes on. I don't personally know any Muslim men who prey on women like animals. just cos u see some in the media doesn't mean they are all like that. men are expected to be modest and mindful towards women. it saddens me to see men use my religion to further their own shitty agendas, again this is changing too. So to summarise YANBU!

"Excess fabric" Is that what we are calling mandatory covering up of women in shapeless bin bags now?

That "excess fabric" is a cause and a symptom of the segregation, subjugation and abuse of women in Afghanistan.

Islam promotes equality between the sexes and holds women very highly. What happens culturally is a different matter.

If people of a certain culture attach bigotry and unfairness to religious practice it's their fault if the religion comes in for criticism as a result.

I agree with Cote. Critics of critics (you know what I mean!) try to downplay the importance, saying, it's just a bit of extra fabric, it's just a scarf, it's just a long skirt. Well if it was just all that it wouldn't have any importance to the people wearing it, which it obviously does. It does symbolise something and that something is control and oppression, and about blaming women over and over again.

I think it's irrelevant that many women are involved/make money in the production of scarves, burkhas etc. In countries which practise FGM, it is generally the women of the family who want the girls to be mutilated, and it's often performed by a woman.

I am not likening wearing a headscarf to FGM, btw. I'm just pointing out that women being involved in a process doesn't therefore mean that other women aren't being oppressed.

My Hijab for me is the outward symbol of my relationship with God. It is me adhering to the Gods laws. It is between me and God, I really don't care about what men are asked to do they could be asked to go naked and women to cover their hair, I'd still do it.

It takes a huge amount of courage and fortitude to wear it, it makes a muslim woman a walking target for hatred and bigotry and most people automatically see my headscarf and make massive (incorrect) assumptions about me, I get a huge amount of satisfaction watching the sexist, bigotted, xenophobic assumptions being obliterated by my conduct, sometimes I actually see the shock register on the faces of these people, funnily enough, most of the time it's women who dismiss me as stupid little opressed indian girl who probably can't speak english, men generally don't.

I was in court last week, the judge (female) assumed I was in receipt of legal aid, when she was told I was not she actually did a double take and her entire facial expression changed, my barrister even commented on it.

lurcher whats your point, so women should be opressed by being banned from wearing a hijab?

Fuzzy - God's law says modesty, no? It's cultural, not religious, how you apply that. So that means you have a choice.

"It takes a huge amount of courage and fortitude to wear it, it makes a muslim woman a walking target for hatred and bigotry"

It so often sounds to me like a political gesture rather than anything else. Many absolutely devout Christians won't wear a cross or crucifix because they don't want to use the sacrifice as bodily adornment. Others much less devout might wear it to make a big old point. I think there's a parallel.

Fuzzy I am not casting doubt on how devout your faith is.

fuzzy I have great respect for your beliefs and the way you are loyal to them.
I only have to ask, were Gods laws given to you by God, or were they transcribed by men who wished to preserve their status as being superior to women?

Fuzzy, I would ban a hijab from primary school and I would ban face covering from public service jobs. Sorry.

Op, yanbu at all. A friends dd (12) excitedly told me a class mate has begun wearing a burqa lately and she she thought this girl was very inspiring. I felt quite sad about this - sad for the Muslim girl and sad that my friends dd thought it was a positive thing. It really isn't
I haven't the slightest prejudice against any religion but I have plenty against the oppression of women

fuzzy, earlier in the thread there were comments that this is a big money-making industry, and that lots of women do very well financially out of it. My point is that that doesn't mean no other women are being oppressed. For me, a burkha is a tool to oppress women, regardless of who made it or sold it.

Crumble it's clearin the quran that when out in public a woman is to sover her head neck and torso, the face veils and hands and feet have always been up for dicussion, I use the middle road and cover my head and torso.

It's clear to me and the women I know who observe hijab.

It only becomes political when people start telling me I don't know my own mind and am opressed for choosing to cover what I want to cover.

I'm not breaking any laws in choosing how I dress, if everyone else can choose how they dress in England, I expect the same, seriously people have too much time on their hands.

Mejy: I think it's more that people take the name of Islam and abuse and distort it, and most of the people who do that are claiming to be Muslims and to act in the name of Islam. People who aren't Muslims, the Church of England, atheists, agnostics, in fact most people, most journalists, most commentators, most regular people, go to great efforts to be sensitive and tolerant. You choose to see the worst.

I've asked many times on forums about why men of Islamic faith living in the UK don't generally wear religious or covering dress, while the women often do.

The answer is always, what men do is up to them, but I wear covering because I want to.

To me, that's a cop out. How can it not be a sexist religion or culture that asks women to be modest and wear outward symbols of faith, but does not ask men the same?

But the reason for covering your head neck and torso is not to inflame men?

Sally it's the word of God.

Hamwidge, you're sad a 12 year old girl says she finds another girl wearing a hijab inspiring? Seriously?

Lurcher women wear the hijab and they design it for women and there is a massive amount of money in couture hijabs, I don't buy into that and I dont buy into that it is oppressive full stop.

It is oppression to have your rights to dress, worship and live freely as the rest of the country does taken away from you.

Choosing to wear a headscarf is not opression.

I think women who can should reject it, because there are too many women who can't, and if you can reject it and don't, that validates and excuses the oppression of those who have no choice. I think it's an issue of global responsibility and sisterhood.