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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to take a baby to the red light district in Amsterdam.

110 replies

honeytea · 02/07/2013 09:22

We are staying in Amsterdam for 2 nights next week, I asked my Dutch friend what she would recommend we do whilst in Amsterdam, she said we must walk through the red light district it is a real experience and it probably won't be around for ever.

We have a ds who is 6 montgs old. He would be asleep either in his pram ( with a blanket hung from the hood) or snuggled up in a sling.

My dp and my friend think it would be fine to take a baby to the red light district ( friend also had a young baby) I amnot too sure. Dp is Swedish and he often says I am a prude. Dp's logic is that ds won't remember it even if he does wake up ( which is unlikely.) when ds has seen naked women other than myself ( sil's sunbathing and friends popping in and out of the sauna) he has just stared at their breasts as if he is thinking hmm they have milk too!

The culture of sex around children is very relaxed in Sweden, most people co-sleep and in our
Preparing for birth and parenthood class the midwife encouraged us to resume a sexual relationship even with the baby in the bed, ds was given a children's book about the body which included a picture of an erect penis and sexual intercourse ( the book is hidden for now.) my dp has liberal ( Swedish) views which often clash with my less liberal ( British views possibly)

So mumsnet jury, aibu to take my asleep baby for a stroll around the red light district?

OP posts:
RiotsNotDiets · 02/07/2013 09:55

The red light district has got all the sex museums though hasn't it? They're quite funny (parents didn't take us to the museums as kids! I went with friends as a teen).

IfUSeekAmy · 02/07/2013 09:55

Last week I read Slave Girl by Sarah Forsyth. Makes you think about the girls who work in the Red Light District and how they came to be there

Ashoething · 02/07/2013 09:56

Dh persuaded me to go to Amsterdam on our honeymoon. He had been a few times on lads holidays. I hated it. Its a beautiful city but there is a seediness about it. LOads of drug dealers constantly asking if you want anything. I wouldn't take a child anywhere near the red light district.

notso · 02/07/2013 09:56

Thats what I thought it would be like honeytea but it wasn't at all I found it was seedy and sad and I was stoned which took the edge off.

I went with DH and a his best friend and his wife. There were some families there when we were there, and we all commented that we wouldn't feel the need to take our children.

magichamster · 02/07/2013 10:00

I was in Amsterdam a few weeks ago.

We stumbled upon the red light district during the day. Just a few women standing in windows in bikinis and the occasional sex shop. It was very quiet. I wouldn't have a problem wheeling a pram through the bit I saw during the day.

In the evening it is much more lively. Lots of drunk stag parties (didn't see any that were british by the way), and I wouldn't do it then - more too much pushing and shoving near canals - but during the day you'd be fine.

Birdsgottafly · 02/07/2013 10:01

OP, you need to watch "Amsterdam Nights", it's on late, i can't remember what channel.

You will see the arguments, conducted from the street, through the window, as to why the prostitute doesn't "suck arse-holes" (or whatever the buyer wants) and the abuse that is given.

Interestingly, the gay male prostitutes can refuse to carry out more sex acts than the women can, so no change there as to who gets a better deal.

You will see that there is nothing empowering by being on display, available to buy and abused by anyone passing.

Latara · 02/07/2013 10:03

The baby won't notice where he is but i wouldn't bother going.

My friends and me accidentally walked into that area and got pestered by gangs of men.

Go to the Anne Frank museum, the Van Gogh museum, the Riijksmuseum; go on a canal tour and try the local bars / restaurants, eat proper Dutch food and buy Dutch cheese and chocolate... lots to do there other than see prostitutes and get stoned.

itstooearly · 02/07/2013 10:03

As others have said it really is grim.Sad looking woman posing in their underwear in shop windows. All i could think about is the fact that they are someones daughters, it is one of the most depressing places i have been.

Original poster
honeytea · 02/07/2013 10:04

I think I was naive to think that it was a good idea in the first place, it wad my Dutch friend who suggested it but maybe she ment it is good to see as it is so unique to Amsterdam.

We have planned to hire bikes on one day and visit a museum or two and then go on a canal tour on the 2nd day. The only reason we choose Amsterdam is that we are driving from Sweden to the UK and we needed somewhere to stop over.

OP posts:
AKissIsNotAContract · 02/07/2013 10:05

I found the red light district very upsetting and I'm not a prude or anti prostitution. If you are only there for 2 nights I would have thought there are nicer places to go but I don't think you would be wrong to take a baby there.

Latara · 02/07/2013 10:08

Bikes are a good way to get around; i couldn't believe how many bikes there are everywhere!

Also the trams are good but watch out for pickpockets.

The canal boat tours are interesting because they give a commentary about the buildings that you pass.

OxfordBags · 02/07/2013 10:09

OP, if you think that any red light district would be empowering and festive, full of empowered women, then I really don't think you should visit it, because you are going to be extra-traumatised. Just because prostitution is legal in NL, the situation of most of the women is just the same as any other demographic of prostitutes. The majority of sex workers are still trafficked or co-erced. Loads of them 'choose' (yeah, right) to prostitute themselves because they have addictions or are desperate. Even the ones who choose to do it with less muddied intentions are bored, dislike their clients and it's all a clinical transaction. The rooms where they entertain their clients are tiny, bare and depressing.

The tiny minority of women who genuinely find their sex work empowering will be a high-class escorts, dominatrixes, etc., who are highly-paid and (hopefully) more respected, and you won't see them out on display in the RLD.

The RLD, is, as others say, grim. I used to work in Amsterdam, and used to take 25 mins to get to work instead of the 10 it would have taken me to go through the RLD. Dead-eyed women covered in bruises, gyrating resentfully in grubby, tacky undies at 8.30 am has zero to do with festive empowerment. And later on in the day, the gangs of braying, leering, drunk and stoned men bellowing at the women, banging on their windows, shouting obscenities are as scary as they are utterly disgusting.

You have got your reasons wrong for not wanting to take your DS there - he will not be traumatised by seeing scantily-clad women, but he will be scared by the aggressive packs of appalling misogynists, and you and your DH should not collude in the objectification and dehumanisation of women in the way that the RLD does.

The rest of Amsterdam is fabulous and very child-friendly. You can have a wonderful time there without having to even think about the RLD.

Latara · 02/07/2013 10:11

I liked the bars because the barmen made a fuss of us and came to serve us cocktails at our table rather than making us wait at the bar.

Also there are cats lying on the bars in many places!

Dutch people seemed to be nice and friendly on the whole.

DoctorRobert · 02/07/2013 10:11

As the others have said, it's a pretty grim sight. Sad looking women in their underwear in windows. I would have thought there were far nicer parts of Amsterdam for you to visit, but if you really must, then YANBU for taking the baby. He won't know what it is.

OxfordBags · 02/07/2013 10:12

Ashoething, you must've stuck exclusively to the dodgy areas to be hassled by dealers like that. To give the impression they are everywhere, is absolutely untrue. You have to seek out the areas for drugs (or prostitution) to get offered that way. Perhaps your DH only took you to the laddish areas he was familiar with.

Original poster
honeytea · 02/07/2013 10:13

Change of plan, I want to go to a bar which has a cat!

Although a bar with a baby probably isn't allowed.

OP posts:
Greythorne · 02/07/2013 10:14

The baby will be fine.

You and your husband will be observing the exploitation of vulnerable women and girls, the normalisation of sexual abuse and bands of men being given carte blanche to exercise their sense of sexual entitlement as a tourist attraction.

BaronessBomburst · 02/07/2013 10:15

It's grubby, seedy and full of pick-pockets. If you've seen one street you've seen them all.

And a fair few of the women are actually men.

bryonywhisker · 02/07/2013 10:15

I saw it when I was 18, 22 years ago. Even then I felt so desperately sorry for thise women. It was during the day and I was taken by my Dutch friend who thought my shock was funny. Groups of leering men were spitting at the windows and making vile gestures and noises. A revolting human zoo of depravity.

The baby, thankfully won't remember anything.

nenevomito · 02/07/2013 10:15

I've been to Amsterdam a number of times and it really is a beautiful city, but there's nowt fun and empowering about the RLD. It gave me a true understanding of what the phrase "dead behind the eyes" really means.

BaronessBomburst · 02/07/2013 10:16

You can take children to bars here. They're more like cafes and serve coffee and snacks too.

Ashoething · 02/07/2013 10:17

I just didn't like the atmosphere oxford-I am allowed to say I didn't like it you knowHmm The museums and parks are lovely but I just don't get the attraction of sitting in cafes to get off your tits.Its not for me. And there were a LOT of people selling drugs.

CloudsAndTrees · 02/07/2013 10:18

I really didn't think the red light district was that bad when I went there about 10 years ago, but it may well have changed a lot.

Oing on what it was like when I was there, I would take a baby and would feel perfectly safe, but I wouldn't take an older child because its just not a side of life a child needs to be exposed to at a young age.

In your position I'd go out of curiosity to see what all the fuss is about, but you only have to wander around for 20 minutes and then you can leave and be back in the rest of beautiful Amsterdam.

LoveWine · 02/07/2013 10:19

You are being over sensitive. Your baby won't remember anything and it won't be affected in any way. I'm not from the UK but currently live here and I am sometimes surprised about the less liberal views on some topics. In this case I definitely think you have nothing to worry about.

EauRouge · 02/07/2013 10:21

I wouldn't describe it as a must-see; it's full of miserable looking women, English stag parties and pick-pockets. You could easily give it a miss and go somewhere nice like the flower market.

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