To expect my ex to spend his contact time with DD together?

[ItsDecisionTime]

I've posted here before about the trials and tribulations of my DD not waiting to travel to the USA this summer for an extended period of time. Unfortunately, with 2 weeks to go, and DD already on school holidays, we still have no firm arrangements in place.

Last night on the telephone, DD 12 - for the first time - decided to initiative and tell her dad that she didn't want to spend 5 weeks overseas in the summer but would prefer him to travel to the UK and spend time with him here so she can introduce him into her life. It resulted in a shouting match between the two of them and she ended up being both proud of herself for very eloquently putting her point across but at the same time, visibly upset by his reluctance to back down.

During the course of the conversation, it transpired that, for a period of 5 weeks, he only intends to take off 7 days holiday and the remainder of the time will organise for her to attend activity groups from 8am to 6pm every week day. Not only is this DDs worst nightmare but what's the bloody point? He's dragging me through the courts to increase his time with her on the basis that he only gets to see her in the summer yet can't even be freaking bothered to organise the time off.

I've looked after her on my own over the school holidays for the past 6 years and have taken unpaid leave to cover any period I was unable to take annual leave.

Anyone have any constructive thoughts on what I should do next? I guess I'll be in court any day soon but they aren't yet aware that he isn't going to take the time off if she goes over there. Thank you.

I know someone who was in this position, only it was just a different city not a different country.
Dad insisted she went to him for the agreed time, but would never come over to see her. She wanted to show him her life, not just see his - he never agreed. She felt a bit of a spare part when she was with him and hated going there, as well as resenting the fact that he didn't seem interested in what she was up to.

End result: she got to 16, court agreement ended, she hasn't seen him since. She felt as though he'd only ever seen her to prove a point to her mother (not sure how true that was) by never coming to see her, always making her travel to him. And she reckoned she'd seen all of his life that she needed to so there was no point in going again. And now there isn't a relationship at all. The Dad needs to be very careful that he doesn't come across as always making the daughter share his life, rather than making some effort to share hers.

At the end of the day, when it comes to going abroad, you have to agree. So you do have ultimate control.

So 'he won't compromise' is on him.

Put it to him - she doesn't want to go for this length of time and you can see her point. You're both willing to do shorter (perhaps supplemented by a shorter trip another time to make up the time?)

But if he's not willing to compromise, or discuss it, you can't make a decision.

At 12 I would not be inclined to drag her kicking and screaming and dumping her on a flight, but I wouldn't be focussing on my discussions about what she actually does why she is there, as that isn't the real issue.

I also agree with babybythesea here, and can see that this could become a huge issue for your DD.

But at the end of the day, that's on your ex, not you. You can't control what he does or how he thinks about it, and thinking about it, or focussing on these issues won't help.

Thanks again giant.

DD has already suggested to him that perhaps she could go for 2 weeks. She even suggested to him that if he couldn't spend more than a few days with her, she could fly to Atlanta and spend time with her Grandad (his dad) who she adores and hasn't seen in 2 years. He refused.

Ask any of DDs friends how she would cope with being in a summer camp and I think without exception they'd all die laughing. She's a home bird, loves her pets, her friends, her family and absolutely hates - with a passion - anything that involves being in unfamiliar surroundings. We're all different and that's just her and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing or that someone should try to force change her.

Even with the levels of unreasonable hell he's put me through in the past 3 years, I do still think it important she maintains some kind of relationship with him. I do, therefore, encourage her to speak to him every week (she doesn't), email him (she doesn't) and spend at least some of her holidays with him - she does but only through constant nagging from me. She knows I may be put under such pressure by the court to force her to go and that's why she too is looking for compromises.

My fear is the word compromise doesn't even exist in his vocabulary.

babybythesea. That's EXACTLY what's going to happen in this case. DD has already indicated she's not going to see him after she's 16 and is also talking about revoking her US citizenship as soon as she's able. In all my dealings with him, I've begged him to consider the long-term effects of him taking such a rigid position. He just doesn't see it.

itsdecisiontime - then I think it's on him to be honest.

But he has given you (and your DD) two options. Either you push her to go for 5 weeks or she doesn't go at all.

Have you weighed up the pros and cons of both?? I assume you have no court order enforcing this time abroad?

I would perhaps consider what she misses out on if she doesn't go, and if that ends up with a rift between her and her dad, and perhaps get her opinion on some of it before you make your decision.

But it sounds like it is YOUR decision. Not (DD's, she is too young to make the final decision) and not your EX's as he has no control.

So how do YOU feel about it??

The family court, if it comes to that, will (a) listen to you daughter's wishes, (b) expect everyone to show a degree of compromise.

If someone has a reasonable (costed) plan, the court is likely to approve it.

My DD started to hate summer activity days when she was 12, btw.

My feeling is he chose to live abroad and it shouldn't be DDs or my problem.

DD doesn't know him and doesn't particularly have any enthusiasm for doing so. I feel sad about this but he's behaved like a dick for so long now, she's had enough. There's so much more to this post than I have the stamina to go into but he really is a complete arse.

However, if all the evidence suggests that it will be better in the long run for her to have some kind of contact with him then that's what should happen.

He does need to see things from her perspective though and not just think he can have it all his own way.

I know him inside out and can read him like a book. None of this is for the benefit of DD, it's revenge for me making him pay his way.

What a mess.

I think it should be your daughters decision , end of . She's prepared to compromise ,the adult isn't ,that just about sums it up .

She's just had an email from him saying he's planning on buying a dog when she goes over there. Talk about emotional blackmail. She's too clever for him though. She's had too many promises over the years only to be let down time after time after time.

I don't think there is an 'all the evidence' answer though I'm afraid. It depends on the person.

There is obviously massive backstory here, and not a good one.

Ask yourself this - have you done all that you (from what is within your gift) could to ensure that DD has the opportunity to get to know her father?

Do you believe that 5 weeks in the USA on the current terms presented by her father would not be what is best for her, given the alternative of staying at home and her feelings on the matter?

If the answer to these is yes, then just say no, and let him do what he will.

Seriously????

Just wow!

Say no again and tomorrow he will be getting her a horse !

giant, let me give you an example of how I encouraged their relationship.

Two years ago, he came to collect her and brought a friend (male). They wanted to see Windsor, London, Stonehenge etc. so DD asked if I would drive them around as she wanted her dad to see these places with her.

Not once, did either of them put their hand in their pocket to pay for petrol, food, parking. I even paid for my DD's meals when we were in restaurants.

She wanted her dad to see her bedroom at home so twice I invited him and his friend for dinner, to watch movies etc. just so they could get away from the restrictions of staying in a hotel.

Two days after they left for the US, I received a solicitor's letter saying he was taking me to court for custody on the basis DD was not being looked after in the way he wished. He'd been going to see a solicitor behind my back while I was chauffering them around the UK, paying for them and generally trying to be a good mother to DD.

After a year of absolute hell, I collected her from the airport last year and he hugged me and told me he'd rather be my friend than my enemy and let's put a stop to all the fighting.

A month later, out of the blue, I received a solicitor's letter saying he wanted to take her to the US for the entire summer holiday and the entire Xmas holiday, speak to her on Skype every weekend and see her as and when he was in the UK at other times. Insisted on a welfare report being undertaken saying she was living in an unhappy environment.

All complete bull-shit.

I'm a single working mum with my own business. DD attends private school (which I pay for), she is happy, secure, funny, respectful and popular with children and adults alike. She has her moments as we all do but nothing more than growing pains.

There comes a point when it's very difficult to remain objective in a situation like this, particularly when DD sees most of this and is determined in her attitude to staying at home in the summer.

OP, I really sympathise (from experience).

What I have learned is that any knob can pay a solicitor to write a letter. I have quite the collection.

You said DD has for the last 6 years spent 4 weeks with him in USA for the summer holidays. She knows what it is like and been unhappy.
What if she contacts her beloved Gdad, perhaps he could get his son to see sense and persuade him to let her come and stay with him for a week or so?

Her dad is being overbearing, uncompromising and inconsiderate of her feelings/welfare. I expect in his mind she should do as she is told, especially by him the dad and king of his castle? That manner will definitely not endear himself to his 'princess', just the contrary.

Your DD has a strength of character that is admirable for her age.
Her dad is being very foolish and is in danger of ruining a future relationship with her. I find it very .

DD spoke to him for a second time but didn't manage to reiterate what she said to him yesterday as all he could talk about were his own feelings.

She sent him an email after the conversation to say she didn't want to upset him at all but wasn't going to the US this year and that was it. He replied her saying he had rights and the courts would rule in his favour. He didn't care what she wanted as life isn't always about what she wants. Left her feeling quite upset.

Furthermore, I received the most vile email calling me a rotten, no good, manipulative bitch who is sick in the head and needs help. Even said he will issue an injunction to stop me taking her away next week on a UK holiday.

I know it's only name calling but on top of everything else, it is soul destroying.

Unknown to me, DD has sent him a further email to say he should never, ever call her mum a bitch again.

Itsdecisiontime - sorry I didn't mean my post to come across as questioning your encouragement of their relationship, not at all.

What I meant was, that if you personally have done what you can, and you don't think it is in DD's interests, then you shouldn't be questioning your right and/or ability to refuse your ex's requests, particularly if he unwilling to compromise. Be sure in yourself, your efforts and your care for your child.

My initial response to your question was coming from the other angle, as all too often I see on here resident parents who are all to quick to judge what the other parents do, and finding them lacking, simply because their choices are different or they are unhappy that they are not in control.

However, your further posts have shown 2 things. 1 - that the initial question wasn't really the right one, and that the issue is more about your ex's desire for control, unwillingness to compromise and general twatishness. And 2 - that you are not trying to frustrate 'contact' but mediate between your daughter and her father.

What I would say though, is that if you have not already, try to get some of this in writing. If you have been clear about your DD's reservations and issue siwht the proposal, and offered other solutions, or asked your ex to consider other options, then I think the court would look favourably on this. Someone up thread mentioned this, and it seems if past history is anything to go by then court is a possibility.

No offence taken giant. I see where you're coming from and I do question myself quite a lot to make sure I'm in the main acting in DDs best interests. Very difficult when faced with someone like my ex who is a very good talker but not much substance.

When ex tells me in an email that I need to "watch my back as I don't know what's coming to me". How would you take that? As a threat? Do you think it should influence the way I see contact between him and DD?

I hope you are keeping all these emails ,surely with that kind of behaviour he wouldn't stand an earthly in court .

After receiving a further email, solicitor told me to log a call with the police just so they have it on record and if we then need to file a non-molestation order, they have all the information. Seems overkill to me but I've done it and they're taking it really seriously. They're sending an officer over today to look at the evidence.

First available hearing date at the court is 5th August so at least DD and I can relax in the knowledge we can go ahead with our holiday plans and she can enjoy part of her summer.

Don't want to go into the content of his emails in detail as they are so hideous but it's safe to say he's demoted himself to no contact whatsoever in the short term. What a shame, it could have been handled so differently if he would just act like a responsible adult.

What a shame.

I think at 12 children are old enough to start expressing their own wishes and opinions on contact, and the adults should try and respect those where they can. Your ex sounds very much like my dad - and it did him no favours wrt our relationship.

I'm glad your daughter feels strong enough in her own convictions to discuss this with both of you. I hope a contact plan that suits her needs will be reached.

He sounds vile. Just as well he lives in a different continent. I think you're doing the right thing. His email correspondence shows that it's all about him and not the best interests of your dd. You don't have anything to fear from a legal point of view (except perhaps expense...) and well done for listening to your dd and taking her concerns seriously and allowing her to act on them.

Enjoy your holiday!