To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

AmazingMumofsix

One of closest friends was brought up in Communist Hungary and she is a verdant feminist. She goes back three times a year and sees the abuse that women are subjected to (and allowed to be subjected to by men) there is NO help there for women or children being abused.

Her niece works in an orphanage where there are sixty babies to one 'nurse' to care for them and the majority of those babies are girls that have been dumped there. No one wants to adopt them.

They are basically, fed, changed and put back in the cot until the next feed, change or tied up if they are old enough to try and walk but many of them do not get past the walking part as the mental damage has been done by then.

rubyred I believe you.

I

Redruby, of course I recognise what those men and women fought for - as I enjoy my mortgage as a single mother, I thank them every day.

But I am sure they would understand why I don't wish to indentify with many who call themselves feminists today.

I have no problem with gratitude promqueen, but I think sigmunde does, as hu keeps going on about it. I was just trying to present the recognition/gratitude thing in a way hu might find more palatable

Spero

I could never understand either when I worked in an auctioneers when grandchildren flogged off their grandfather's war medals for a few quid.

He went to hell and back to earn them. We didn't. We just enjoy the benefits of their sacrifice. I understand many of them didn't have a choice either way.

Women FOUGHT for their rights against an aghast and misunderstanding world.

Promqueen, that is interesting, I didn't feel badly treated but I was getting very irritated by the knee jerk response from some that it was simply impossible for any woman to consent to selling sex and that anyone who said it was, was effectively supporting the traffick and forced prostitution of young girls.

Of course I accept that exploitation and abuse is a huge problem in the sex trade. But I just cannot accept that NO prostitue ever has been able to make an informed choice about her trade. Also, I found there was a horrible whiff on that thread that disabled men were just disgusting exploiters. I do wonder what the response would have been if I said I was a disabled gay woman who wanted to pay for sex with another woman?

I was to asking for people to agree with me or defer to me as a disabled person, but the lack of any compassion for the disabled, coupled with the arrogant disdain of some posters who claimed to speak for all women over all time, just further compounded my unease with whole business.

Redruby - maybe they were desperate for money? How can you judge unless you know? I wouldn't hold on to a medal if my daughter was hungry.

Spero

Not one of the people who flogged off their grandpa's medals 'needed' the money. You do not have a flash car and a big house if you did.

Ok, then they are sad twats. Not sure what this has to do with the argument however.

Of course we should honour those who suffered and died for us - almost exclusively young men when it comes to war.

PromQueen I hear you, good post.

This has been a very interesting thread to read and is a perennial MN favourite.

I'm avowedly a feminist and don't mind saying so. If anyone doesn't identify as a feminist that's fine, it's a shame but the world won't end will it.

Now, I'm a white, well educated middle class woman in a first world country so pretty much sorted when it comes to privilege; not that it's a guarantee of anything but I'm better off than many. But a hell of a lot of women don't have my privilege and get a really shit deal from life but then so do some high status women. Look at Nigella Lawson - case in point.

To be honest I understand why people turn away from it because once you see and know things you can't unsee them or not know them.

I think people confuse feminism with consumerism.
Eg: they want it all.
No. We just want to be treated equally.

Spero

Sorry to not come to the point I was trying to make re: war. Like a true feminist I am running around doing several things at once! (irony - I love it)

Where in the country is a cenotaph with the names of women who gave their lives for their country? I know of one or two. One or two out of thousands of cenotaphs.

Wow, just logged in and it's taken me a while to read through the thread, some amazing posts & opinions on here.

I don't hold anyone to such high standards! Be angry, be brusque, even be rude. But don't have one size fits all responses about victim blaming or being an apologist or any of that old crap.

And for the love of all that's holy, don't assume I am a man just because I don't agree with you.

That's all I ask. It's not so much is it?

Why do people over complicate things?

Being a feminist just means that you think men and women are equal and should be treated equally.

How any woman has an issue with that, I simply don't undertstand.

starfish you can say that about any ideology.

There are people fighting racism who make my blood boil. But I don't stop describing myself as against racism.

Methodology will always differ, but it's the fundemental idea that matters!

Prom yes indeed.

But the fundemenatl principle remains sound. And so I'm proud to stand by it.