to find it really irritating when people who earn a lot say...

[Doodledumdums]

...But I work really hard for the money I get.

Sorry, totally unimportant, but it really irritates me!

I have a few friends who earn quite a lot of money, and I don't begrudge them this at all, but I just find it really insulting when they say 'But I do work really hard for it.' I also work hard! I feel like it implies that I don't! Okay, I am on maternity leave at the moment, so am not actually at work, (although i'd say that to some extent, looking after a baby is harder than my actual job anyway!) but when I am working, I am usually in the office by 8am, and often don't leave until 7pm, and I earn literally a fraction of what some of my friends earn. That is fine, I knew that when I got in to my chosen industry, but it doesn't mean that I don't work as hard as they do or deserve more!

They don't need to be defensive about it at all! It is totally fine that they earn what they do, I just don't understand why they can't be a bit more gracious about it and say something like 'Yes, I am lucky that I have a job I love which pays well.'

Oh I don't know, maybe I am being unreasonable and ultra-sensitive. I am sure they don't mean to imply that I don't work hard, but it just feels like that sometimes. Totally a first world issue!

P.S- I have self esteem and anxiety issues...which is possibly why I find this upsetting!

[Doodledumdums]

But I'm assuming Op isn't hanging out with uber wealthy performers and artists.

Well...now you mention it...I do happen to have Gerard Butler and Michael Buble on speed dial

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Bit rude garlic

Not everybody has to be "grateful" for their education because they worked their way the career ladder in their chosen (or not) field. Sometimes successes is down to working really fucking hard and not much else.

Wake up.

[UpTheFRIGGinDuff]

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Garlic
"Lucky" can devalue the effort and choices that people have made. Was I lucky that one of my parents died when I was a teenager meaning that I had to do a couple of years extra to make up for the impact on my schooling?

I fully acknowledge that I am very well paid for what I do and in that sense I am in a better position than many people. But I didn't have an amazing smooth and easy path to get to where I am. Where I am lucky is that I am academically inclined in a country that supports that.

[garlicnutty]

Not everybody has to be "grateful"

I was talking about "grace." Nobody has to be gracious. But the opposite of having grace is being an arse.

Denying respect to others, while bigging yourself up, is repulsive. Doing it to others because they have less than you is disgusting.

I don't believe any Mumsnetter would disagree. Don't understand why so many of you are insisting on it here.

[wannabeawallaby]

Yanbu OP. Gets on my tits too.

And life is a game of luck. You're lucky that job existed for you to get it. Lucky you were born in this country with its opportunities and not in a backwater slum in a third world country. Lucky you were born with all your senses. Lucky the people also being interviewed for that job weren't better than you. Lucky your parents met so you were born...

It's all luck and random chance.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Well it looks like we agree with each other actually garlic .

[lottieandmia]

YANBU - there are a lot of people who think they earn a lot because they work harder than everyone else and are somehow superior. When in reality there are many people who also work very hard for little money because they don't work in a lucrative area.

[VelvetSpoon]

I wouldn't say I earn a lot, a decent salary admittedly, and about 3x the amount several of my friends do. I don't tend to make a big song and dance about what I earn or how hard I work. My friends (none of who have DC) have chosen to do low paid, stress free jobs because that suits them. They didn't want careers, or promotions, or to work before 9.01am or after 4.59pm, which is their choice. Plenty of people make similar choices. But I think having made that active choice not to seek out a better paid role, nor to advance yourself, you can't bleat about what others in far more stressful roles earn...

[Justfornowitwilldo]

'Lucky' minimises the deliberate effort that's gone into getting and keeping a highly paid job.

Of course there are low paid jobs that require lots of training, long hours and carry heavy responsibilities. They also don't hide their wage structures. You know what you're getting into. I doubt anyone goes into teaching for the money and glamour of it. Some jobs, some sectors, pay very well. Others pay very little for the qualifications and commitment.

[sashh]

The one I hate, if you ever see pupils from top public schools interviewed they always say, "my parents work really hard to sent me here".

It implies that other people don't work hard.

[HabbaDabbaDoo]

MN is full of parents going on about how their DC worked so hard on their school project for example. It never occurred to me that these parents were taking a dig at me and suggesting that my DCs didn't work hard on theirs [sarcasm emoticon]

Let's face it people. A lot of you have a chip on your shoulders about other people earning more than you.

[DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper]

The whole point of contention, on this thread, is whether or not something's being implied or not.

If you take it that someone who earns a lot and says they work hard for it, is implying something about everyone else, then of course your back is up from the start.

If, on the other hand, you think all they're doing is commenting on their own situation and nobody else's, then there's absolutely zero reason for your back to be up.

Why not assume that it's not actually all about you, and assume the latter?

Probably they are working hard. So are you. So what's the big deal?

[frogspoon]

I think getting a well paid job is a combination of both luck and hard work, you cannot do it without both.

As wannabe has correctly said, you are lucky to be born in a country which offers you free education, healthcare etc, giving you the opportunities to make the most of your life. You're also lucky to have abilities and talents that mean you are able to do a particular job. However this luck on its own would be pretty useless without a lot of hard work.

For most well-paid jobs, getting good grades at school and university is required, and these require alot of hard work for the majority of people. Not to mention sending off hundreds of job applications and preparing for many interviews. You can't just saunter into an interview with no preparation and expect to get the job, you have to work hard for it, especially in this current economic climate.

It's alot more competitive to e.g. get into medical school or secure a law training contract than to get a job in a supermarket. You have to work harder to get it.

[IfIonlyhadsomesleep]

I don't see why acknowledging luck in the case of careers means that hard work is belittled. Dh works incredibly hard but has the good luck to be good at something that means his hard work is financially rewarded. And to gabe been the right person at the right time. No goid having the luck without the hard work and cuce versa. There's no logic in denying luck unless you are prepared to say that those on low incomes necessarily don't work hard.

[Xmasbaby11]

YABa little bitU when it's about friends.

They are probably telling the truth when they say they work hard. I don't think it's passing judgement on anyone else.

[RedHelenB]

Try getting work in a supermarket nowadays!

I think some people need a reality check! And FWIW, some people I know on £50k plus salaries DON'T actually work very hard in terms of hours at work. Or indeed in gaining extra qualifications.

[Theironfistofarkus]

Having money can be down to either luck or hard work but in most cases it is down to a combination of the two. I am fortunate in that I had the right academic abilities and support to get my job which has high earning potential. I do work very hard though - long hours, enormous responsibility, high stress and I have to be available to work 100% of the time if required. I have weeks from time to time when I am never home before midnight or later (sometimes dont go home) and then work all weekend. I lost most of my holiday last year. If not at work am checking blackberry constantly. I don't think it would be unfair of me to say that I work hard for my money. But I recognise that I am lucky to have the choice and that some people work very hard without good compensation. If I say that I work hard for my money I mean exactly what I say and nothing more. There is no hidden agenda or judgement about what anyone else does or indeed implication that there was no luck involved.

[grumpyoldbat]

Imo all the hard work in the world is worthless without a bit of luck but equally all the luck in the world is worthless without hard work.

Yes people with good jobs have made good choices but you can only chose from the options available to them so are lucky their choice was available to them.

Yes they probably worked hard at school at uni and excelled at interview but were lucky the job was there to apply for at the point where they were qualified/experienced enough to do so.

They are lucky they haven't been struck down by some illness or accident that makes it impossible to do their job.

None of this means they haven't worked hard because the must have worked hard to take advantage of this luck.

[amazingmumof6]

if I heard someone say "I'm lucky I have job and it pays well" I'd think they are bragging.
if anyone posted that in here they'd be flamed

I don't know if YABU or not.

best not to discuss money with family/friends.

[MorrisZapp]

Grumpy, all that you say is of course true. But in normal conversation, people just respond directly don't they, not with a series of caveats and waivers.

I'm assuming Garlicnutty is sleeping off last night's excess. My theory is that she is Liz Jones :)

Garlic, as I said upthread, I have a good job of my own which I freely admit I got through a series of lucky circumstances. I earn 37k and I don't honestly work that hard for it, which is why I used the example of my DP instead. He earns a bit less than me and he works incredibly hard for it.

We're not high earners in the MN sense, but I earn vastly more than I ever dreamed I would when I left uni all those years ago. I feel very comfortably off, though we are not rich compared to the kind of high earning I think this thread is about.

Of course we're lucky in many ways, lucky to have our health, our skills etc but really, are we only allowed to discuss our working lives with 'grace'? MN would be a dead zone v quickly if all we were allowed to DP in life was count our blessings.

[Latara]

Luck does come into it.

I was a Staff Nurse earning 26K but i was really ill with mental health problems so now i have to work as an HCA on half that wage.

Bad luck can happen to anyone.

Hopefully i will work as an SN again, but it's likely to be only part time so not earning the money. But i work extremely hard and get very tired due to medication.
People imply that i'm lucky because i'm part time but they don't know the truth.

[HighInterestRat]

I also think a lot of it is luck. I have an ok paid job but am very good at it (listen to me bragging ) and also have very good qualifications. My manager often asks me for help . She is hopeless at her job, much less qualified than me (although a lovely person) but was given a good opportunity.

One day when I am past the ridiculous two under three stage I will move on. Although I am terrible at interviewing and selling myself so need to work on that too.

[HighInterestRat]

My DH earns three times as much as me and he left school with barely any G.C.S.E.s, did a bricklaying course (N.V.Q.s?) and set up his own business. He bought his first house aged 20, his spelling is horrendous and he supports our family financially in a way I wouldn't be able to.

I excelled all the way through school, graduated in a profession and am now coasting in my career, working part-time in a job I am overqualified for. Confidence is an issue for me, there aren't many opportunities for me in our area and we have young children so I have picked up the slack because I earn less and he works for himself. We both worked hard, just in different ways I suppose, and his way has paid off more than mine.

[WetGrass]

You - whoever you are - have made your choices - and bristle at any implied judgement of that by anyone speaking about their circumstances and remuneration.

But - by being sensitive to your feelings - it also creates a culture of secrecy - where your children (whoever they are) will struggle to get full understanding of the potential economic and lifestyle consequences of their choices.

So the children of bricklayers become bricklayers and the children of lawyers become lawyers. And the world keeps going round; the condecension of tact keeping everybody in their birthright.