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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is not fair on DD, and to say no?

29 replies

MoreEffortNeeded · 17/06/2013 19:37

DD is 8 months, and ex has seen her once-twice a fortnight for a couple of hours for the past 2 months, before that it has been on and off similar amounts.
DD gets very upset throughout contact, and doesn't recognise him in a positive way (if anything she is much worse than she is with strangers) he shows no care towards her, seems to view her more as a doll to preform for him. (among other things)

He is now saying he wants me to leave her to cry alone with him during contact until she "learns she can't cry for attention" and that she needs to do this in order to know he is her dad.
I said it is fine for her to be grizzling or crying, but that I am not prepared to leave her hysterically screaming, and that it is not going to help their relationship if she is left so upset during visits.

He said it doesn't do babies harm to cry as she won't remember later that day, and that she needs to learn like an older child would that she can't get her own way.
I have said he needs to visit more/for longer, not leave her to scream, if he is serious about speeding up her getting to know him. He is refusing to visit more than an hour or 2 a week, so we have now reached a stalemate.
AIBU? I can't see how it benefits her to be left screaming/alone at this stage, and think he should put the effort not expect her to just scream it out for his benefit.

OP posts:
tumbletumble · 17/06/2013 19:39

YANBU at all.

If he refuses to see sense, could you try mediation? Or ask a mutual friend or family member to sit with you while you discuss it?

ImTooHecsyForYourParty · 17/06/2013 19:41

I bloody wouldn't go along with that.

What he's basically telling you is that he's going to let her scream her head off and any attempt from her to have her needs met (which is what crying is - a baby's only form of communication!) is going to be ignored.

he's got some shit ideas about being a father. Leave your baby to cry so that they know you're their dad?

Hmm

No. They know they can't rely on you to meet their needs. That's what they know.

Seems like it's about him 'winning' rather than about his child.

I wouldn't go along with this, I really wouldn't.

He barely sees his child as it is. You'd expect a loving father to be unable to put his baby DOWN! Not be trying to win some sort of battle with her that only exists in his tiny mind.

pjmama · 17/06/2013 19:41

Your ex is an idiot - how is being left distressed in his company going to help them to bond?! If he wants her to know that he's her dad, then he needs to commit to spending more time with her. If he won't do that then he'll have to accept that she won't know him from anyone else she might spend the odd hour or two around. What a pillock.

attheendoftheday · 17/06/2013 19:44

Your ex is an idiot.

Original poster
MoreEffortNeeded · 17/06/2013 19:45

Would a court order unsupervised contact in this situation? I think it's an empty threat but he has said if I don't listen he will.

OP posts:
Holly129 · 17/06/2013 19:45

Is there a reason he's not having her every other weekend or more often? With the visits being in mummy's house with mummy there perhaps your dd just wants your attention? If he isn't willing to have her for enough time for her to get to know him I would be very tempted to arrange supervised contact through a centre. The staff there would ensure your dd is safe.

Damash12 · 17/06/2013 19:47

Oh my god, I can't believe what i am reading. Tell him to FUCK OFF!! God this had made me soooo angry. I really hope you don't listen to him and go aling with this.
She's still a baby and her main voice and to explain what she needs is to cry. You are her constant and in 20 years time you'll get more thanks for being there for every time. I have a 4 year old and a 4month old and I never let either "cry it out". It's bloody wrong.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee · 17/06/2013 19:47

MN favourite.

NO is a complete sentence.

Idiot. Hopefully he'll get fed up of it and bog off - I'm not sure your DD needs someone this stupid in her life.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee · 17/06/2013 19:49

Holly I'd say that the above posts alone are a good enough reason for him not to be having her every other weekend or more often??!!

Floggingmolly · 17/06/2013 19:49

She needs to do this in order to know he is her dad
Don't even dream of going along with this nonsense. Is he of generally low intelligence? That remark is just plain dim. Sad

Snazzywaitingforsummer · 17/06/2013 19:51

He knows nothing and it shows. What makes him think, given his lack of time with her, that he knows how to handle the situation?

Also, in terms of her learning she 'can't cry for attention' - what is he doing in his contact time with her if not giving her attention? Surely that is exactly the point? If he wants to spend his contact time with her not giving her attention and making a big deal of that, then something's very wrong with him.

Other people with personal experience of this may know more, but I thought that the recommendation for very young children was to have 'little and often' contact, so 2 hors every fortnight is not on those lines - it would need to be say half an hour a few times a week for her to get a sense of who he is. But even so, it wouldn't be right to leave her screaming and distressed under any circumstances.

Has he put any of this down in a recordable form - e.g. texts, emails or voicemail? If so I would make sure you keep copies or record it. I get the feeling you are going to need to set some firm boundaries around all this. What's the legal position? Has this contact arrangement been officially agreed in any way or is it just between you two?

digerd · 17/06/2013 19:51

He sees her for only 1-2 hours. He should be playing with her, cuddling her. Why does she cry at 8 months and during that short time he sees her, what exactly is she trying to get her own way with - in his mind?

Original poster
MoreEffortNeeded · 17/06/2013 19:51

As he won't see her more than 1-2 hours a week holly, apparently doesn't have enough time to.

She is worse during visits out of the house if anything.
I can see the logic behind your point about her wanting me because I'm there, but she is happy with most other people until I go out of sight at the moment so leaving her alone wouldn't end well when she won't even calm down with him with me nearby currently.

OP posts:
1Veryhungrycaterpillar · 17/06/2013 19:51

Are you able to say no or can he force contact?

Dackyduddles · 17/06/2013 19:53

He's a fruit loop.

megsmouse · 17/06/2013 19:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Snazzywaitingforsummer · 17/06/2013 19:59

How irritating for him that an 8 month old baby won't just fit in with his personal needs, preferences and schedule. Hmm Can't see his attitude getting a good reception in court. I wouldn't let yourself be intimidated by that threat, OP.

Original poster
MoreEffortNeeded · 17/06/2013 20:22

snazzy it is all over email so recorded,
I was worried it would look bad that I'm not leaving her to cry if it went to court too, as someone in real life has said to me about court allowing for different parenting techniques so I should be letting him do what he likes when he see's her Confused
Thanks for reassuring me everyone x Thanks

OP posts:
jacks365 · 17/06/2013 20:36

His attitude won't get a good reception in court but I'm afraid yours won't either. He is from the sounds of it asking you not to intefere during his contact and I'm afraid the court would agree with that. I'm a mother with a crap ex who thankfully has run a mile but there are no reasons why the court wouldn't grant him sole access if he wanted it. If you don't have real evidence that he is abusive to your child which he isn't from what you've said then the court will award him contact.

Wibblypiglikesbananas · 17/06/2013 20:40

Do you have a solicitor? Why does he only have a couple of hours here and there?

Original poster
MoreEffortNeeded · 17/06/2013 20:42

Jacks would court look at how she upset she gets when she see's/is held by him, or make him see her more frequently, or would they literally just say "ok he only wants to see her 1-2 hours so she has to do the 1-2 hours a week alone straight away, she'll get used to it" Confused

OP posts:
Original poster
MoreEffortNeeded · 17/06/2013 20:44

Wibbly I think it's so little as he's fits it around when he has absolutely nothing better to do, as there are last minute cancellations/rearrangements most weeks.
I haven't seen a solicitor yet.

OP posts:
jacks365 · 17/06/2013 20:56

The problem is that you could be seen as interfering with him bonding with her by your anxiety and that your presence is an issue. Since he is already seeing her then yes normally the court would allow alone contact straight away. We may be as mums horrified that a father could appear so unfeeling but the courts prority is to allow access so if he goes that route he will get it.

I sometimes have to leave my daughter and when I leave the house she cries, it lasts all of 30 seconds, she's better if she is the one who leaves so for example if who ever is babysitting takes her out for a walk she's fine. No way would my daughter cope with contact in our home but she would out of it and away from me mostly because she would pick up on my anxiety and dislike.

IneedAsockamnesty · 17/06/2013 20:57

How comfortable financially is he?

If he would need legal aid to fund anything he won't get it any more as it is no longer available for child contact cases unless the applicant is a victim of domestic abuse.

Original poster
MoreEffortNeeded · 17/06/2013 21:03

jacks how old is your daughter, and when did she start calming down after 30 seconds or so rather than just loosing the plot until you returned?

OP posts: