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AIBU?

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Original poster

We encourage children in our cafe BUT

999 replies

childfriendlycafeowner · 14/06/2013 20:07

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

OP posts:
ThoughtsPlease · 14/06/2013 23:23

piglet it was meant to be a little tongue in cheek!

ThoughtsPlease · 14/06/2013 23:26

Actually I think people's tolerance for noise from children and what they consider within a normal range is different.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 14/06/2013 23:28

The number of other customers is irrelevant. Purposely inflicting your screaming child on any other person in a place ehere you don't have to be is just selfish.

ThoughtsPlease · 14/06/2013 23:33

Saggy you mentioned the 30 or 40 other customers.

As I said though I'd be interested to know how many there were, and how many it actually bothered. That to me, without being there to judge, would give a better indication of whether it really was unacceptable.

If the vast majority found it annoying then yes, but if the vast majority didn't then perhaps it wasn't as bad as the OP has stated.

BrianTheMole · 14/06/2013 23:36

I remember going to a posh restaurant once where, at the table next to me, a small child was screaming and the mother was (probably at the end of her tether), ignoring the child. After about 5 mins a staff member went and asked if she could do anything to help and offered to take the child outside herself to distract her. Obviously the mum didn't want her to do that, so started settling down the child herself. I think the restaurant had a rather nice and unfailingly polite approach. Personally though, if my kids were screaming the place down and I couldnt settle them quickly, I'd take them out myself rather than subject everyone to it.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 14/06/2013 23:37

I was generalising.
So, if there were 10 people in the café, and only 4 of them were bothered, does that make it all right? Do those 4 not get to enjoy their food in peace, purely because 6 people don't care?

Lazyjaney · 14/06/2013 23:38

"If the vast majority found it annoying then yes, but if the vast majority didn't then perhaps it wasn't as bad as the OP has stated"

Of course the vast majority of people don't mind a child screaming for a half an hour in a confined place, do they?

Oh, wait....

kaumana · 14/06/2013 23:44

OP Please ignore thoughts she is obviously looking for attention just like the toddlers she is defending.

QuintessentialOldDear · 14/06/2013 23:45

I came to Starbucks once, and as I was in the queue, I noticed a mum with her two children. A baby in a pram and a toddler. The toddler was yelling. Mum (nanny?) was texting. Toddler kept screaming, red face, tears literally popping out of her eyes. Mum was still busy on the phone, did not even look at her dd. So I left.

blueemerald · 14/06/2013 23:49

If the child had any kind of special need surely the mother/accompanying adult would have said so when the OP spoke to her? A lot of the suggested disabilities (ASD, ADHD) are invisible, particularly to those who are unfamiliar with them, and I can't imagine anyone with a child with special needs not explaining that when spoken to, very politely, by the cafe owner.

Children scream, it happens; but what would annoy me would be the mother/accompanying adult making no attempt whatsoever to distract/placate the child and then laughing when asked about it.

OP, the mother may complain about your cafe to her friends but if I had been there and seen you tackle her I would be recommending your cafe to my friends.

Blu · 14/06/2013 23:49

YANBU. Family friendly doesn't mean parents can allow babies or kids to inflict misery on everyone else.

DS was a complete pain In cafes and restaurants. So we didn't go out with him after he was 5+ and semi-tamed. Gong out was not our divine right to the extent that we could take responsibility.

ThoughtsPlease · 14/06/2013 23:58

kaumana how does that work then, the OP has asked for opinions, if someone asks for more information to offer an informed opinion that is attention seeking is it? Very odd.

Should I just agree do you think even if I am not sure that I do?

Defending toddlers? Really? Those little people who are perhaps a little confused about this big world they find themselves in and need some guidance?

And I will say again that no I do not believe that it is ok for a child to scream so much that they upset lots of other customers, but let's be honest other adults sometimes annoy other adults when out, but perhaps other adults don't mind their 'annoying' actions, but who is right? There is a degree of tolerance and personal judgement.

kaumana · 15/06/2013 00:00

Yawn ..

ThoughtsPlease · 15/06/2013 00:02

Yes you do sound rather boring.

StateofConfusion · 15/06/2013 00:04

yanbu

i have a 4&5yo who over the years have loved the sounds they can make, i have never and will never tollerate screaming screeching or excessive noise when other people are around. No you cant always use words to control a toddler but you can remove them.

MrsMook · 15/06/2013 00:21

DS (2 1/2) has just discovered the joy of shouting in a public place. So far we can turn it into a whispering competition. He's also into the joys of sloppy raspberries and blantant theatrical ignoring (blocking him from view with my hand and turning away) deprives him of the attention he seeks, so he stops as he wants an "eurgh" reaction. There are ways to address toddler behaviour that is anti-social.

After the removal from the pub episode last year, we had to accept that for a while, our choices for eating out were limited and that the priority was quick service.

Young children won't learn how to behave in public if they go unchallenged. IME people are normally forgiving when they can see parental effort being made, even if the sucess is limited (cue evacuation mode).

Blu · 15/06/2013 05:08

YANBU. Family friendly doesn't mean parents can allow babies or kids to inflict misery on everyone else. Though plenty of parents seem to think it does.

DS was a complete pain In cafes and restaurants. So we didn't go out with him after he was 5+ and semi-tamed. Gong out was not our divine right to the extent that we could take control of every one else's experience.

exoticfruits · 15/06/2013 07:47

'Family friendly' means that you are friendly to all families and you don't let one dominate and spoil it for everyone else- otherwise 'everyone else' votes with their feet.

ZolaBuddleia · 15/06/2013 08:49

Yes, ThoughtsPlease, OP has said that the child was screaming just because she liked it, rather than being upset, so yes, letting her carry on is indulging antisocial behaviour in a place where there are others.

Nothing wrong with a good screech outside, of course.

catgirl1976 · 15/06/2013 08:58

My DS is 19 months

He looks like a 4 year old as he is huge - off the scale on the height and weight charts

I often worry that when he does normal 19 month old things (and sometimes, emitting high pitched shrieks can be one of them - although we do try to shush him) that people think he is a badly behaved 4 year old

I think YABU - you can't always make a 2 year old stop shrieking and you don't know the child was 2

What would you have done about a crying 6 week old?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/06/2013 09:00

thoughts please dd is 3. Surely anybody would find constant high pitched shrieking in an enclosed space distressing? If you force a young child to stay in a situation that distresses them, then yes, they will tend to kick off.

amandine07 · 15/06/2013 09:10

YANBU

If it was that loud it must have been bothering the vast majority of people in there.

The main point is whether the mother made any efforts to stop her child from screaming or took them outside to calm down.
Young children will shout & scream, that's just a fact- it's how it gets dealt with.

I don't have kids of my own (yet), but I couldn't imagine putting up with all that and not saying or doing something if it were my own child.

Maybe it's different once you have your own, the sound of them screaming is somehow not as bad as if it were somebody else's child? Hmm

aftermay · 15/06/2013 09:10

By this logic then come one, come all. Why not let a 14 year old be obnoxious. Maybe it's just the hormones and 'can't help himself'. There must be some common sense and decency 'rules' and not screaming your head of should be one of those. If you are too young etc and can't help it, then a responsible adult should help you out by removing you from that situation. Even if it means they have to gulp down their latte.

JakeBullet · 15/06/2013 09:10

As a parent in that situation I would have move outside, there is no way I would have stayed put. I would have asked for containers to take away any food I ad ordered but no way would I have remained while my child was causing such a level of noise. That would be for my OWN sanity, never m d anyone else's.

PavlovtheCat · 15/06/2013 09:11

Yanbu, I would be horrified if my children behaved like this for so long, family friendly means that there are highchairs, low salt food they can chose from, some books and toys etc, you expect a few more crumbs on the floor and a bit more disruption in terms of laughing, noise, getting down from the table, and maybe a bit of wingeing. It does not, IMO, mean that it's ok for your child to scream the entire time. If ds wakes grumpy, like he does some times, a d we need to eat, we buy a sarnie, if we have not taken snacks. If we are attempting to enjoy a nice lunch or breakfast as we do, and a child kicks off, they are taken outside, and if they cannot be calmed, we leave. If we are already eating we eat up and clear out, normslly with my dhmtaking ds out. Usually with an apology to the other customers/staff having to put up with the screaming.

We always sit outside too, if st all possible, and try to find places with outdoor space for that reason. Although that's not always possible.

We actually stopped going out for more than a coffe/ cake somewhere outside for about a year when dd was 2 ish as her concentration was not enough to sit still for more than 20 mins.

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