We encourage children in our cafe BUT

[childfriendlycafeowner]

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

[devientenigma]

[tabulahrasa]

The thing is though that some parents do make the choice just not to go anywhere, because they are unable to stop their child's behaviours.

There are actually parents who never leave the house with their disabled child during weekends or school holidays because they have no support and no time without their child if there is no school.

Part of my remit used to be to support parents to be able to lead a more normal life because isolation is a massive issue for parents of a disabled children.

But what some people seem to be seeing is that actually if their child is noisy they were right, they aren't welcome anywhere and those parents were completely right to stay in their homes for the entire 6 weeks in summer.

[devientenigma]

I am one of those parents and as my disabled child does not attend school either, he and I get next to nowhere.

[devientenigma]

Personally I'm not surprised by the response from either the NT or SN community and as always it shows the communities will rarely compromise. I am a bit surprised that some didn't get a much harder time with their responses.

[devientenigma]

Ok not compromise before anyone grills me on that.........comes up with strategies, plans etc for us all to live together and use the same facilities etc

[ArbitraryUsername]

This thread is incredibly depressing, particularly in rhe context of MN's current campaigning activities. So disabled people should stay out of sight/hearing unless they're unlikely to offend people.

Disability is a protected characteristic because people affected by it have not made a behavioural (or other) choice (and by extension, the parents of children with SN have not 'made the poor parenting choice').

Tolerance is not something contemporary British society excels at.

[Eyesunderarock]

My child has struggled with undisciplined and uncontrolled children in the past. They have upset him with their actions and he has retaliated.
One of the reasons I was a helicopter parent was to protect other people's children from the consequences of their intentional actions.
There really are parents who have children that they allow to behave in an unrestrained fashion, to run around and yell and climb on things and generally do what they like because the parent chooses not to intervene, or attempt to channel the behaviour.
Those children behave in school because the expectations and the clarity of the rules helps them to understand and modify what they are doing, but they often revert out of school. They have control over their behaviour and can make choices about what they do.

[MrsBucketxx]

the thing is no one is tolerant of children at all.

my dd 2 was scowled at fir counting to loudly at the doctors kast week.

children dont come with a mute button.

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

I should just leave this thread, but I am still horrified at some posters who feel that I should keep my somewhat screechy and flappy DS out of public because he may disturb people with his disability.

[exoticfruits]

The really, really depressing thing about this thread is the fact that people are taking it to mean that if they have a DC with SN then they shouldn't go out or into public places- of course they should. I don't mind if they can't control - I mind the fact that that they don't try.
And I will say, one last time, that this thread is not about children with SN.
I could bet money on 'little tinker' meaning naughty 'spirited' child.

[ivykaty44]

I think ellenjane wants to misread and misread again everything that is written, until it fits how she perceives the outside world is against her and her circumstances.

If you want to make out the rest of the world is against you in this way you will probably find that life is harder than it could be.

Someone asked last night if they could have a thread about where is friendly for parents to go, and that was squashed. For anyone that is interested the staff in a particular chain of coffee shops are advised they are never ever to say anything to a child who is cry or screeching and running around or behaving in whatever manner and that goes for adults as there my be a reason for this behaviour. So there are places that you could feel safe and secure in the knowledge that nothing would be said to you. I don't understand why it was squashed other than it was something positive and that doesn't seem to be something that is wanted on this thread

[MrsBucketxx]

Ellen, you should. never be made to feel like that, everyone has the right to go to a cafe and not get attitude.

[wintertimeisfun]

i think there is a world of difference between a laid back chatting mother ignoring a bored/naughter child in a cafe to someone with sn when it comes to tolerance. i regularly go to a sainsbury's cafe where there is always at the same time a man with his son who has sn (possibly autism). his son makes regular loud noises however this doesn't bother me or stop me going. actually, over the years when i have gone and witnissed this boy go from young child to now teenager it has come into my head that it is good that his father takes him to cafes (because of the noise his son makes) as they have a life too. on the other hand, i hate it when i mother sits there chatting to her friend, ignoring their kids who are running round screaming/playing. i think you should take somehting for your kids to do if yo intend to chat with a friend ie a sticker book, they need something to occupy themselves with

[ArbitraryUsername]

But exotic, you don't know whether a child has SN or not. You'd just assume 'naughty child; crap parent'.

[exoticfruits]

No doubt you will find me examples of where you think that I said it EllenJane but of course you should take him out.
This thread has been completely hijacked to make out that people said things that they have never said.
Read amazingmumof6 at 22:50- that is all that is being said.

[exoticfruits]

Do parents of children with SN say 'she's a little tinker- isn't she?' Really?

[GobbySadcase]

Thing is Mrs Bucket it happens - not just to Ellen, to many of us. Not just in the virtual world but in RL.

Our already restricted lives are affected still further when we're snapped at to 'control them' and worse, I've had my car criminally damaged and been spat at, and I don't think this is at all unusual.

[exoticfruits]

Sorry it was 22.53 that amazingmumof6 summed up the thread.

[ArbitraryUsername]

Someone might. A mother fed up with having to explain and justify her daughter's behaviour might just want to deflect the question.

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

Exotic, the whole thread isn't saying that, but some posters have actually said it.

And please remember that anyone can comment on any thread and relate it to their lives and their experience. In my case, children being noisy in cafés and parents being made to feel unwelcome is very close to home.

IvyKaty, there are plenty of threads in the SN topic. This one happens to be in AIBU. Just because my experience isn't average really shouldn't mean I can't comment on my experience. This talk of parents with SN DC leaving the thread to start their own sounded a little like exclusion, is all.

Last night after you both went to bed the thread became very different.

[devientenigma]

It's not goby, we had our windows put through for spoiling the parking in the street by getting.........a disabled box.

[tabulahrasa]

'Do parents of children with SN say 'she's a little tinker- isn't she?' Really?'

They might, yes.

My DS is loud, not screechy just almost shouts instead of talks...we don't really know whether it's to do with his AS, his co-ordination difficulties, his speech disorder or just because he's blooming loud. Nothing makes any difference, he can either talk really loudly or not talk.

If I was out with him and caught someone glaring at him chatting to me loudly - I'm not going to explain that yes I'm aware that he's talking loudly, no there's nothing I can do about it and explain about his various SNs, I might just smile apologetically, I might just say, he's loud isn't he , I might glare back...it depends what mood I'm in and what sort of day I'm having or what else is going on with me at the time.