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AIBU?

We encourage children in our cafe BUT

999 replies

childfriendlycafeowner · 14/06/2013 20:07

I hope you don't mind us asking any readers for their opinion on child behaviour in public places.

We run a small cafe in a small town, and we love doing it (opened up 4 months ago). The previous owners did not encourage children and families, we do, we bought high chairs and do what we can to make families feel welcome. But today two girls came in with a baby and a toddler, my guess is the toddler was 2. From the moment she arrived the screamed, not crying because she was upset but screaming because I guess she liked the sound of her own voice. We made comments to the mum in the hope she would take the hint that the child was disturbing all the other customers but her comment was "she is a little tinker isn't she" The other customers threw their food and drinks down their necks and left as quickly as they could, some complaining as they left. She did go quiet for a little while but she was screaming for probably at least half of the 1 hour plus that she was in the cafe.

When the lady came to pay we said to the lady that we are very sorry but unless she can stop her little girl disturbing all our other customers and driving them away perhaps she could sit in our outside seating area with her or not come in. We felt terrible to say this but it really was a terrible din that upset many people.

Are we being reasonable or unreasonable. Would you tolerate your child no matter how young being so disruptive to other people in public

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brdgrl · 17/06/2013 01:28

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EllenJanesthickerknickers · 17/06/2013 01:34

Really, brdgrl? Shock

I am the inconsiderate one? I have a DS with SN, I am his parent and his carer. He makes noises and flaps due to his disability. I should keep him away from public places and never go out because his disability disturbs others. Really? Thank God you don't make the laws in this country.

If he was black, and you found the sight of black people disturbing, should I keep him out of sight? If he was gay and you found gay people disturbing, should I keep him out of sight and sound?

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EllenJanesthickerknickers · 17/06/2013 01:40

I repeat, please show some compassion and tolerance.

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tabulahrasa · 17/06/2013 01:45

I genuinely can't even form a response to that... I really can't.

It's very telling though, that when we're talking about a child displaying behaviours over which they have less to no ability to control over than other children because of a disability - you call it 'acting up'.

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EllenJanesthickerknickers · 17/06/2013 01:46

Please report it, tab.

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brdgrl · 17/06/2013 01:51

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brdgrl · 17/06/2013 01:53

The phrase "acting up" was used to refer to all children acting up in cafes, regardless of the reason or their status as "with SN" or "without SN".

On what grounds can you possibly report my post? I have not violated any guidelines. You don't like what I am saying.

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tabulahrasa · 17/06/2013 01:54

'Another patron, the one your child is disturbing, his or her life may be dealing with mental health problems...with a heavy workload...with an aging parent...a dying spouse...chronic pain...who knows? I think it is extraordinarily intolerant of you to essentially deprive that person of a peaceful cup of coffee or a lunch with a friend whom they can talk over their problems with.'

Right so in a tolerant society, we can be considerate to people experiencing different things and try our best to accommodate the fact that people may be dealing with a variety of issues...unless one of them is having a child with a disability that may cause noise? They should just stay at home forever?

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EllenJanesthickerknickers · 17/06/2013 01:56

You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole, here, can't you see?

My DS screeches and flaps, he's autistic. He's not dangerous, he can't help it, the noises and flapping aren't within his or my control. You actually do have to put up with it. It's enshrined in the Equality act. Fucking hell, I'm gobsmacked at your attitude.

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EllenJanesthickerknickers · 17/06/2013 01:59

And actually it does compare exactly with race hate and homophobia. You are saying my DS shouldn't be out in public because his disability might disturb you.

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tabulahrasa · 17/06/2013 02:04

'There is no comparison to discrimination on the basis of race or sexuality. No one is trying to prevent a class of people from accessing the public services. This is about behaviour. The underlying reasons for the behaviour are actually, I'm sorry, sort of beside the point.'

Except they're not, for a child with autism for instance flapping and noises are something that occurs quite often, one reason they do it is because they have sensory integration problems and it helps give them sensory feedback as to where their body is in relation to their environment. It is not a behavioural choice any more than a person with a visual impairment accidentally knocking into you while trying to establish where they are in relation to an environment is.

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brdgrl · 17/06/2013 02:05

And actually it does compare exactly with race hate and homophobia. You are saying my DS shouldn't be out in public because his disability might disturb you.
No, its really not the same. You should really know that.

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brdgrl · 17/06/2013 02:06

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brdgrl · 17/06/2013 02:09

Anyway, I am off to bed. Enjoy your misplaced indignation.

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tabulahrasa · 17/06/2013 02:11

'Right. The person making the poor behavioral choice is the parent.'

So you are actually saying that if a child has a disability that directly causes them to make a noise other people may find annoying then their parent should never take them anywhere that other people may be disturbed by that?

That if you know that your child will be noisy and there is actually nothing you can do to stop that - that you shouldn't take your child out to somewhere like a cafe, ever?

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EllenJanesthickerknickers · 17/06/2013 02:12

Again, my DS can't help flapping and screeching. So, I, as his parent, should behave myself better by keeping him out of public?

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EllenJanesthickerknickers · 17/06/2013 02:13

Misplaced indignation, I think not.

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boomting · 17/06/2013 02:20

And this is precisely why I avoid 'family friendly' places like the plague.

I rather suspect that that mother is the sort of person who would take her small child onto the quiet carriage of a train.

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TrucksAndDinosaurs · 17/06/2013 03:45

Thank you EllenJane and Tabulahrasa for saying what I would like to say.

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TrucksAndDinosaurs · 17/06/2013 03:56

Brdgirl.
Biscuit for you
Perhaps house arrest for carers of people with SN for failimgnto observe the social contract? They ought to learn not to make these poor behavioural choices, oughtn't they?

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HullMum · 17/06/2013 04:13

yanbu. I love my children. I don't expect other people to. I have a one year old and a two year old. some one is always crying so either dh or I take them for a walk. when I'm alone, I have to leave.

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claraschu · 17/06/2013 04:19

brdgrl:
How deeply unkind; how can you have so little empathy?

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HullMum · 17/06/2013 04:33

oh and my 2year old is a shrieker. it's deafening. but it's only a couple of more years of this social suicide. And then I may leave the house again Grin

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DottyboutDots · 17/06/2013 05:16

What should one do with a naughty child, not a child with SN, and mother?

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KingRollo · 17/06/2013 06:15

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