to find it weird when babies and toddlers are collectively referred to as "she"?

[samandi]

Surely it should be "he or she" or "he"? While I don't like the latter, at least it is kind of correct. Or use "they" - while not technically correct, at least it sounds more appropriate.

I feel sorry for your dogs, this.

jamie - erm ... well, it kinda is, I should say, people were taking the piss out of it rather than recommending it. But to be fair, I know loads of people use it when blogging about their real lives, just to make it less obvious which colleague they're talking about.

on a lot of the newsletters I get, it says He in one article, then She in another (and baby books have done this too)

The MN newsletter knows my DD is a girl, and it says She throughout (it's deliberate, it asks when you sign up)

we do need an "it" without it sounding like we're assigning an animal status to a person though (i was quite happy to call my in utero baby "it" but a lot of people don't like that as soon as the baby is born)

We'd all sound like getorf's Le Gavroche thread if it did become mainstream.

Ox site says it's increasingly acceptable, though some argue that it shouldn't be because it's grammatically incorrect: I'm one of those!

Thisisaeuphemism

Me too, especially dogs. Don't know why. I find female dogs confusing

Malenky

What I meant was, ze is easier to say/read than s/he. S/he is clumsy

Malenky

I fear I have missed a French joke

Not really, it's just I have a childish and possibly xenophobic sense of humour. GetOrf ended up with a thread full of people speaking cod-French, and to me 'ze' is classic cod-French.

It is easier to say, you're right. I have to admit I struggle to take it seriously but it is a nice idea in a way.

God. What IS this thread about? Anyone?

she is the universal pronoun and incorporates he (it's actually in the word she, if you think about it)

totally legitimate to refer to she or her where gender is unspecified for this very reason

most men would undertsand this, and not feel put out, as clearly the terms women (e.g. all women are created equal, woman is born free but is everywhere in chains, one small step for woman, one giat leap for woman kind), she and her clearly include them

in all seriousness i do actually use it as a universal pronoun, ha!

I did a post-grad course a couple of years ago, and had a textbook that alternated between gendered pronouns. E.g. "If your client is displeased with the services you provide, he may complain. However, if the client is pleased she is likely to praise you to others." Drove. Me. MAD!

Oh, that drives me up the wall, happy. I know someone who writes like that and I cannot follow it at all.

Clearly we need to return to a linguistic system of grunting and pointing while we scratch each others' fleas.

YABU. Male pronouns used to be used to denote unknown gender. But times have moved on and in these times of equality it's more appropriate to use "he or she", or to alternate from time to time. Obviously happy's example is extreme, but if in one chapter "he" was used and "she" in the next, that's ideal. I think s/he is fine too.

I'm one of those people who just uses "they" if I don't know the gender of a person and it's never occurred to me that it might be incorrect. I agree with the OP that it's really weird when people use "she" because it seems like they're going out of their way to use it.

As a bit of a tangent, according to Eddie Izzard (who I saw in the O2 on Sunday and was fabulous) English originally had all of the silly assigning genders to inanimate object such as le and la in French. Then we had 300 years of French kings and so all of the official stuff like politics and the judicial system were run in French which meant that the grammar nazis weren't really paying attention to the English language and so at some point people realised that there was no point assigning a gender to spoons and it fell out of use.

Also, whether an object is given a masculine or feminine pronoun in your language actually changes the way you think about that object. In Spanish bridges are male and so if you ask a native Spanish speaker to describe a bridge they'll use manly adjectives such as strong whereas for German speakers (where a bridge is feminine) a bridge would be described using feminine words such as elegant.

In the case of the formula ad they probably used she rather than he to change the way you feel about the baby and the product in some carefully engineered way.

I used he/she/it to describe my team yellow bump. That covered most eventualities.

It's probably just that I have 2DSs, but the baby world feels very female dominated to me. Not just the grammar, but the putrid pink-isation of toys, and floor space dedicated to girls clothes compared to boys. Stupid things like my pushchair being avaliable in only pink or black- not that I would have got the pink for a girl anyway. I've seen toys be avaliable in something fairly neutral that you don't think about until you see the pink alternative next to it.

I don't particularly notice the male form because it is traditionally the default, and in the case of babies, it's correct for my family.

The irony is 51% of babies are male, but different mortality rates and causes mean that overall the population has a female bias, so it's all the wrong way round.

Thisisnotaeuphemism you are not alone

I've noticed and it vaguely annoys me too - tho I assume its a self conscious attempt to not be sexist and redress the balance after years of "he".

It is confusing tho and I have on occasion (sleep dep) referred to my 5 mo old son as "she" because of it.

Incidentally I'm reading a mgmt textbook at the moment too and ALL the pronouns are male, except when the author is referring to a secretary! It's a recently written book too!

E Nesbit always used 'it' about children!

I don't see how using 'she' is 'going out of your way' - it's just being even-handed. Because a baby is as likely to be female as male.