to find it weird when babies and toddlers are collectively referred to as "she"?

[samandi]

Surely it should be "he or she" or "he"? While I don't like the latter, at least it is kind of correct. Or use "they" - while not technically correct, at least it sounds more appropriate.

Another one baffled by this thread.

I've never come across this before, I've always known it be 'they'.

Rhinestone, that can't be correct to use 'he' as a default as you don't use a singular when referring to more than one.

hamilton - the OP does say "I don't mean as a group! I mean when it's not known whether the baby in question is male or female."

The pronoun "it" is used for children in Victorian novels, e.g. Dracula, so maybe that's the correct English.

I've never come across a mixed group being referred to as she. And would definitely object to that or to calling them he.

I think it's becoming more fashionable to use she to describe the baby in that advert for example because it moves us away from the default human being being male. I'm sure in the 50s they would have used a boy baby - now a girl baby is more likely to be the default. Only for babies though - the default adult is still male, resoundingly so.

If I didn't know a baby's gender, I would use "it" or "they", not guess at "he" or "she". I've never heard anyone default to "she".

Well my English must be terrible as I would never use 'he/she' but 'they'. It may have been done in the past but it's quite ludicrous for use with the English language. Maybe with French or other languages that have clear masculine/feminine but surely not English.

Anyway I'm going to continue using 'they'.

Vive la revolution!

Apologies for baffling anyone :-)

I really don't like the idea of calling all babies she though. Glad I'm not the only one who finds it odd.

Ecclesvet - "it" though? Really? :-)

I have in all my 43 years on this earth NEVER heard anyone do this.. ever.

I'm not baffled

I think that using she in parenting books, adverts etc is an attempt to address the fact that in the past "he" would be used, as a default in situations where the person/child in question could be male or female.

You have noticed that she is used for babies, thus equating women/girls with babies.

That's an interesting assumption.

Alternatively, It could also be that the idea of a girl baby is more appealing than the idea of a boy baby. Maybe the advertisers have run focus groups which suggest that.

Dunno really

Yes I think in the past, "gender unknown" was always "he".

So can't really see a problem with using she.

But would have thought that "they" was better-although that still has "he" in it

In medieval English the gender-neutral pronoun is 'ou', according to someone I know who works on ME dialects and suchlike. Just FWIW. We did have one once!

If you don't know the sex, what is the difference between assuming they are a he or a she? It's better than using 'it' or 'they' - although according to a friend of mine who has a PhD in English Language 'they' is seen as acceptable.

I think part of the problem is that in English nouns are not grammatically marked as masculine or feminine or neuter. In languages with grammatical gender, this issue really doesn't arise.

In the past it was very common for "he" to be the default pronoun in English, but due to the above-mentioned lack of grammatical gender, it has become less acceptable in the past few decades. I still cannot stand "they" if it is intended to replace a singular noun. A child is not "they," a child is he or she. If you rephrase a sentence to include a plural noun (e.g., children), "they" would be fine, of course.

these are the sorts of examples the op is referring to

For example:

"if your child is thinking of a gap year, he can get advice from this website" grammatically correct but sexist

""if your child is thinking of a gap year, he or she can get advice from this website" grammatically correct, not sexist but a bit clumsy. ( why does the he have to come first though). I've seen s/he sometimes.

"if your child is thinking of a gap year, they can get advice from this website". grammatically correct, not sexist but a bit clumsy again

The OP's example:
"If your baby needs lots of stimulation, why not buy her some toys.".

Why feminine for babies but not (generally) for adults?

YABU.

It's perfectly usual and reasonable to write things like 'when your baby is about 6 months old, she may show an interest in solid foods'. Many writers will alternate, or use one for one chapter and one for another, or in a preface will say something like: 'to avoid the clumsy 'he or she', I use female pronouns throughout'.

It would not be reasonable or correct to write 'when your baby is about 6 months old, THEY may.... etc'. That would be ungrammatical and crap.

Mardy - "if your child is thinking of a gap year, they can get advice from this website". grammatically correct, not sexist but a bit clumsy again

It's not grammatically correct though - 'your child' is singular, so can't be 'they'.

It is allowable according to the Oxford Dictionary usage link in my post.

That's true TheOriginal

It was pointed out to me at Radfem2013 that the correct gender-neutral pronoun is 'ze'.

I leave it to you to judge whether or not this occasioned a wholesale uptake of new weirdo pronouns.

Hmm, ze is better that s/he

That's interesting- I had never noticed it - if I had I would have thought it were reparations for 'he' being the default for so long.

I call all cats she and all dogs he unless I know it's sex. This is wrong and peculiar isn't it?

That's dogist and catist!

If Ms can become mainstream maybe ze stands a chance.

I do apologise to...zem