To dock a worker's pay for every penny they have cost my dad?

[Roary1]

I have been left to run my dads building firm for the last month. Last week a member if staff TEXTED in claiming they had been admitted to hospital with laryngitis. I did not believe him and requested a ward discharge summary which he could not give me and then just admitted he had gone to A&E and did not go to the ward as the hospital had no beds. He was told a sore throat is not a valid reason for absence but he stayed off for the week. After returning he went AWOL for a day he claimed he had texted in but I never received it and when I asked him to produce the text off his mobile he claimed he deleted it. His messing around has lost the company £200. Should I dock it from his pay?

I like the sound of Bobby and Pam more than JR and Sue-Ellen. This thread is an education!

HootShoot - not true. Anyone can claim wrongful dismissal which is basically a claim for breach of contract, if the dismissal has not followed procedure. It's usually only a claim for notice (ie a month's wages), but if Katie Hopkins here docked his pay for the sick leave period or was found to have dismissed him when she shouldn't have then it will be for substantially more than that, especially if she also docked his pay for the damage to equipment.

Sue Ellen was a hot mess. Has anyone watched the Dallas remake? A friend raved about it but I kept forgetting to watch.

he is prob not coming in to work because you are a nasty and un fair 'boss'.

at "a hot mess"

But very true...

Sorry should have specified unfair dismissal requires a certain amount of service before a tribunal will hear it - actually two years not one - my mistake. Wrongful dismissal claims are relatively unusual due to prohibitive costs of bringing the tribunal when the claimant is only seeking notice pay. I'm not sure what other costs you think would be awarded if no discrimination is alleged? In this case the employee could be dismissed for being dishonest - as already pointed out by hermione.

The other claim would be for unlawful deduction of wages - in this case at least £200, and more if she deducts for damage to the employer's property. And the employee would get more than notice if the tribunal found that they shouldn't have been dismissed at all, which they probably would do if his only documented wrong-doing was not complying with methods for reporting sickness.

You sound like a twat.

Wonder what's wrong with the op's dad that has left her running the firm. Maybe he's unwell and she's agitated because staff are making life difficult in what already may be a stressful time.

Maybe his head fell off and he simultaneously lost the ability to communicate with anyone but her. That's the only explanation I can come up with for him putting his firm under her control.

I would document a return to work and reminder of the process . Then in future you have something to take down the conduct / discipline route with regards to AWOL
If he has texted before and this hasn't been picked up , it's therefore an assumption it's ok by your business. Not much you can do apart from brief and document the correct way with him / all employees.
He could be a major pain in the arse for all we know - but the best way to handle it is by using your company process / handbook.
If he is destroying property then use the proper process.
You may be bloody furious but can't act inappropriately.

First of al the firm has to have a clear written pricedure for an employee to follow on a sick day. Then the employee has to be given a written warning about any infringement and then then there are procedures to follow in cases where infringement is persistent.

You cant just 'dock someones pay'.

My instinct though is what this man is doing is working on little projects on the side that he is cadging as he goes along and using your Dad's firm to pay him a regular wage when he has no work.

You need to follow procedure though.

I walked out of a company once before I was due to be interviewed because all the directors were the owners kids as this is exactly what nepotism gets you - a jumped up know-nothing moron given power they don't deserve and don't know how to use sensibly and it's a nightmare to work for them.

Roary I would consult an HR expert and get clarity on your legal position because I can assure you the cost of legal fees (including his) if you lost an unfair / constructive dismal or a bullying etc. tribunal runs into the tens of thousands even before damages are awarded to the employee if you are found at fault.. Settling out of court is not guaranteed because the claimants solicitor will go for the route that provides the most financial outcome for their client. Plus my understanding is an employee can self certificate for up to 5 working days without the need of a sick note. I understand your frustration but you are playing with fire responding so flippantly about consequences arising from any potential litigation. The courts always support the employee and its usually the employer that has to prove their case...

Tribunals do not always support employees - what a ridiculous thing to say! I take the point that by the time things go to full hearing, vexatious claims have normally been weeded out by preliminary hearings so if someone gets as far as that then they usually do have a genuine grievance, but employment tribunals are definitely not slanted in favour of employees.

Wallison thank you for that.. I will provide your corporate employment law feed back to our corporate law team that discussed this particular subject with us last Thursday.. I mean our General Council only has 30 years employment law experience... But will definitely provide your feedback to her and let her know she was talking blush it last week. Thanks again..

That should be bullshit -a bloody iPads--

Well I didn't ask you to do that but I'm mightily flattered at you taking the trouble to. Employees do have to prove their case though - I'm surprised that you think they don't.

I sit on employment tribunals. We do not always support the employee. The protocols are very clear in each situation where the burden of proof lies.

Wallison no not a problem. I always bow down to a superior mind and I could tell you have a superior legal mind... Just wondering at what point did I say that the employee didn't need to prove their case?

I must add from the simple childish notes posted by the OP that he / she seems to be on a little power trip and he/she sounds a bit of a bully... It wouldn't surprise me at all if he ended up in court..

Ohhh Wallison did I hurt your feelings.. I am sorry! Please accept my sincerely apologies for hurting your feelings. I was simply asking a question and commending you on your superior intellectual mind... I really didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

No, you didn't hurt my feelings. Ill-informed passive-aggressive bleating generally doesn't do me much damage. I clearly hurt yours though, which is why you reported me.

Wallison you are mistaken. I didn't report you. I would have liked MN to leave your comment on so we could all learn how to effectively and intellectually communicate / debate in an adult way..