to think that expensive school trips should be banned

[Nicola10]

Year 8 pupils have, today, left for a school trip to France. Very exciting for them, yes, considering that they will be going to a theme park, as well as educational stuff. But, for the rest of the kids, whose parents could not afford it, including my twins, they have to do normal lessons.

The cost for each child is £400 each!

So, why do children come into school hungry and without breakfast?

Why are people like my Mum making a very small contribution by providing some breakfast?

You can stick your head in the sand and pretend that some people have 'other' reasons why they dont provide a breakfast for their children and dont turn up to Parents Evening or on one heart breaking occasion despite being told to come to look at what their children made over the year in school didnt bother. The teachers had to sit with each child who didnt have a parent to look at their work. You can make excuse after excuse but the fact is these children are literally looking after themselves.

So, tell me why parents cannot bother to give their child breakfast and god knows what other meal. Why they dont turn up to Parents Evenings?

Are you saying my DM is lying (after 40 yrs in a Inner London school).

These parents who dont turn up to meetings, who are sending their children into school starving - we need to keep a careful eye on what is going on. The recent case of the 4 year old starved to death comes to mind. Maybe whoever did this (aware that this is a current court case) didnt have the money, or maybe they were the scum of the earth who couldnt be bothered?

*For children from low income families, trips offered through the school can be the only opportunity they ever have to leave this country, to experience airports, going on a plane, being in another country.

It's the children from low income families that need to be offered these trips the most.*

This is one of the most myopic and ass-backwards things I've ever read. The kids on truly low incomes can't go on these trips. Durr.... They probably do need to be "offered these trips the most" but that's not going to make a blind bit of difference if they can't afford them. In fact it makes things worse.

This dogmatic "life's not fair" mantra is obstinate and self-satisfied. I hope you never get mugged or defrauded. Since, of course, you would never take legal recourse, as life's not fair, after all. What need would you have of the various social frameworks that we have created as a society, such as a legal system, or a universal education system, to mitigate the worst of life's unfairness?

And this hyperbolic rush to the conclusion that the only alternative to excluding poor children from expensive school trips is nonsense. I don't think anyone is saying that no school trips should ever happen at all, but that it is thoughtless and divisive to promote 'learning opportunities' which are far removed from the finances of many ordinary families.

What if schools were to ask parents for contributions to meet the cost of the whole group, rather than paying for individual children? Would the people who think expensive school trips are fine and dandy be prepared to pay on that basis? I'm guessing not.

So, life's not fair. We have the options to either

1. say it's not fair and do nothing about it, leaving the "haves" and all-right jacks as they are
2. say it's not fair, and decide to do something to help those not as lucky

Basically 1) is capitalist/right wing selfish and 2) is left wing. I'm genuinely surprised at all the capitalists coming out of the woodwork on this thread.

Handcream I might be wrong but maybe, these parents who cannot give breakfast to their children do not turn up to parents evening because they worry they will be judged by people who actually do not know their circumstances rather than because they do not care?

We can make assumptions about why they dont attend, but we cannot ignore the fact that some parents just dont care... Why would a teacher judge a parent sitting in front of them asking about their child. It is an Inner London school with a real mix of people. They will be just grateful they turned up and showed some interest!

"they could and should be catering for the abilities of everyone."

Clouds presumably you mean financial, i.e. ability to pay? Obviously that's normal in the private sector. But state schools should be exempt from that kind of thing.

So, after 40 plus years of teaching in Inner London and numerous years afterwards - she cannot possibly know.....Really!

To further my post a few pages back, my comp that I went to in the early 1980s ran trips. I went on a German exchange as my mother could just afford it. I didn't bother taking letters home for the next couple of years because I knew it was unrealistic that I would be able to go. I just accepted the kids from the villages out of town could afford it, the kids on my estate couldn't...end of. During my 6th form I went to Austria during the Easter hols and loved it..I paid for it from my evening/weekend job. On top of doing A levels which I then failed I worked 5 nights a week and the weekends in a pub kitchen. I also went on surfing holidays to North Devon during the summer hols organised by the head of 6th, also paid for myself. Once my own DCs had jobs, DS1 and DS2 from 14 and DD from 16 if they wanted to go they paid! They all went on 1 educational trip each to France paid for by us between 11 and 16.

My DS has a school trip next year at a cost of £350, our school realises parents might struggle with the cost and has given 18 months notice. I have already stated paying (hoping that exH might contribute too but not holding my breath). I would hope there might be enough in the kitty to support the child who wants to attend but whose parents cannot afford it.

Fundraising to send a child on a trip i dont agree with, family not others should pay.

People make lots of choices in life like working or not, number of children etc. Why should others miss out because of others choices.

Chidren see many differences at school, i could never do any trips as home circumstances were a definate no but it made me determined to ensure DS could and gave me a great work ethic. DS may not choose to do any when he gets to high school but he we have the option.

Some choose to drink, smoke, shop every week. Up to them but there are very very few who couldnt actually afford one trip at high school with planning.

I think schools need to carefully consider the point of school trips. And then when they've decided on the benfits, find the cheapest way to deliver them.

DD attends a private girls school that is very fond of jacking up the extras, but trips have been very reasonable. Less than half the price of the OPs.

DS is going on one early next year that will cost £130 for five days!!!!

I do wonder if some of the "life's not fair, some kids go and others can't" brigade would be shouting and complaining to the school if it was THEIR dc who is in the can't group.

I do wonder MrsDevere what on earth makes you think you have all the answers. Can you read minds and do have magical powers.

1-2 children are killed (not abused or hit) KILLED by their familes a week I believe. Mrs Devere - why does this happen?

Goodness handcream you're very dogmatic.
My mother was head of a school in Redbridge and rather disagrees with your point of view, as do I. There are myriad reasons why some parents are unable to attend school functions, many of those reasons have little to do with how much or how little the parent cares about their offspring.
There are myriad reasons why some children go without breakfast. They are not always reasons of neglect.

Turniptwirl there are indeed times when my DC are in the "cant go" group of kids.

The thing I do object to was a trip to Alton Towers for the children who had high "engagement scores" at DCs school. I had no idea the trip was coming up, and it cost about £40. This was a trip to reward the DC who had tried hard tat school hat term. My DS didn't go (too lazy to put any effort into his school work) and I could have found the money, but I thought it was really unfair on the DC who couldn't be rewarded because their parents couldn't afford it. Some DC didn't go on the trip saying they didn't like theme park rides, but I do wonder if there were other reasons....

Like I asked upthread (and always ask on these threads) - of those who want to severely limit schools' being able to offer these trips - how many actually couldn't possibly afford to send each of their children, once, to one, themselves?

The "I'm all right Jack" mentality here comes from those who say "they can go in the holidays". NO THEY BLOODY WELL CAN'T! Well, not all of them. Bully for you if you can - fuck everyone else, eh?

Well good for you MrsDevere. Even if I said I was the teacher with 40 plus years experience you still wouldnt believe me. Hey ho. I have met parents who dont give a dam. If you havent meet them in your line of experience then you must be leading a very sheltered life or pretending they dont exist.

The parents who kill their children. How do you explain them...