to expect my colleague's Year 7 twins to be able to get the bus to school?

[MaryQueenOfSpots]

One of my colleagues has just moved house and the twin children are still at their previous school which is a 30 minute bus ride from the new house. Colleague has requested change of hours to accommodate driving children to school in the morning as "they are too young to take the bus". Colleague's DP works irregular shifts so cannot be depended upon for this.

It will affect the rest of the team because the colleague will not be able to attend the daily ward meeting at 8, so cover will need to be found. This is not impossible, but will not be as good as current situation. Continuity will be lost and junior unqualified staff will need to go instead of qualified colleague. There is likely to be some grumbling by another colleague who also has Year 7. child but allows them to make their own way to school. At the same time, other colleagues have had flexible arrangements made when returning from mat leave.

I am a very inexperienced team leader trying to sort out what is fair? Is it really unacceptable for 11 year olds to take a bus to school? I did when I was that age, but that was back in the dark ages...

It depends on how complicated the journey is (what if they miss a bus? Is the alternative a 3 bus journey or a 2 hour wait? or do they have a bit of a walk for their bus in the first place, in which case there might be anxiety about them making contingency plans) and their maturity. Even if there's not definite SNs, 11 year olds can sometimes still be very young and naive, or impulsive. Learning difficulties can actually be more common in twins since they've often been born a few weeks early or had more complicated births.

If it's possible, since you value that employee, it might set their mind at rest to allow them to work flexibly for a few months, even if flexibly means that you can be lenient about them leaving work to firefight a difficult situation and then making up the time on a day when the kids' travel arrangements go to plan.

It's not up to OP to decide anything about the DC, or whhether potential arrangements for them are good/bad: that is up to the parent to manage, along with choices of where they live etc.

As a parent, you can request flexible working without having to provide details other than your need to care for children. There's no need to make a case about your wish to do that.

The grounds to accept/reject are connected to the business requirements of the post. If missing a ward round compromises patient care, plus impact on other staff who need to cover, I think you would be on safe ground to reject.

Parents can request flexible working, and it must be considered properly. But they do not have the right to have it granted.

OP, has this flexible working request been put in writing on the appropriate form?

Frankly, if the request can be accommodated but it is not as good as the current situation, I'm not sure the business case for turning it down is strong enough. But the request should go in writing to HR so you shouldn't have to handle it alone.

I have sometimes requested flexible working hours for reasons of childcare. But given that I have many colleagues who also have children of a similar age range I always felt the need to explain why my child was different (SN). I would feel very bad if somebody who thought they were in exactly the same situation as me had to work all the inconvenient hours to pick up my slack.

Still, that is her job, not yours.

Your job is to look at it from the pov of the business and motivate your grant/refusal of her request from strict, hard-headed business reasons. Concentrate on how it affects the team, ignore anything private.

Speak to HR.

Unless the children have undisclosed issues then YADNBU.

I know people around here who insist that it is illegal for an under 12 to ever be alone without a supervising adult. Lots of misinformation out there.

Could it be a cost issue? Two lots of bus fare is pricey.
My dd is going into yr 7 in sept and wouldn't even know how to get a bus tbh but that's just the way she is. Youngest if four before I had the baby and quite a young 11.
People do take the piss tho. I have a colleague who had a baby at the same time as me who is late every day and finishes early "due to childcare" I'm the one with five kids and a shift working dh. Tres annoying.

oh yeh children at my kids primary school used to tell them that it was 'illegal' for children to use the bus without an adult, I suppose it had come from their parents.

At that time they used to take one of those little circular route buses to get to school in year 6.

Is there any compromise to be had? Say you understand the issues and wohld like to be flezible but this will be the impact ...and see whether he had any sugggestions. Work with him rather tha agaknst him

My year 7 twins have been getting the bus to school since start of year 7. 20 min journey and one is very scatty and dreamy, she has been fine. We practised the journey in summer hols.

Sorry but in addition to my last post be willing to compromise but be firm on the things that matter. If he's an outstanding member of staff I assume he'll be willing ti work with you on this

YANBU. I was getting the bus to school at that age, admittedly this was 20 years ago now, but my parents both worked full time and it was either that or walk. I sometimes think children today a far to mollycoddled. I was walking to primary school with a friend at eight, nowadays you never see kids of that age walking to school alone. But I was never knocked over or approached by a peadophile, learning to do things for yourself is an essential life skill.

YABU. She has the right to ask, her parenting choices are really none of your business. You don't know what the kids are like, if there are any special needs issues or indeed past experiences that have led her to this decision.

They have the right to ask you dont have to agree.

TBH honest they/he must of known this was going to be an issue, surely no one with school age children moves without taking the journey to/from school in to account.

If they had come to you before moving and said this is what we're hoping to do; the school run is going to be an issue for the first 6 months/year is there any way we can work around this I as a ward sister would have been very accommodating. And used the time leading up to it to train up others to attend the meetings

The fact that you?re saying you feel there maybe something more to it than he comfortable in discussing at this point and if he is that good a team member I?d cut him some slack but do it as a fixed time i.e.: yes but to be reviewed in 6 months

If the partner works shifts surely it won?t be every day?

When I went to secondary you didn't start till Y8 (12) but still not everyone made their own way depending on how far away they lived. 11 is still quite young and whether it is ok would depend on individual circumstances.

However, flexible working should be based on the business needs as well as the employees so you would look at whether you are having to pay extra people to cover, whether it is possible to cover and so on.

I would try to allow it for the last 6 weeks of the term but long term I am not sure it is appropriate TBH. I am surprised they wouldn't have considered this before moving, I am in a similar situation and talked it through with work to figure out the best solution. They have been really flexible but not agreed to all my requests. I have had to accept that as I do understand why it wouldn't necessarily work.

She has the right to mke the request. The request can be declined if there are significant business reasons to do so. The larger the business the more likely it is that reasonable adjustments can be made.

I think you must focus on the provision of an effective service at work. Your opinion and that of anyone else about whether her children can get the bus or not is totally irrelevant and if your colleague picks that up and takes it to the unions any decision will be appealed and overturned.

FFS. No, YANBU to expect 11yo's to catch a bus UNLESS they have some SN's.

My 11yo DS1 can manage to catch a bus AND walk a mike from the bus stop to get to the swimming pool to go with his friends.

My DD wouldn't have managed to catch a bus to school at 11yo - but she has Moderate Learning Difficulties, and didn't know her number bonds to 10 when she was 11yo, much less have the ability to tell the time or read a bus timetable.

So if her DT's have no SN's, then YANBU.

An 11yo with no additional needs CAN catch a bus to Secondary.

She's the parent and can best judge whether they are able to take the bus or not.

You need to decide whether you can accommodate her request.

In your position I probably would try to be flexible.

Noyouhavehadawee - I am a Lone Parent, with disabilities, and have had to pay bus fares for my DC's for the last 9 years. From the age of 5yo.

I have HAD to find the money. You just budget better. I pay the bus fares to school before I even do the food shopping!

For the first two years, I had one lot of child bus fares to pay. Then two for another two years. Then for the next year I had THREE child bus fares to pay. Then back to two again for the next four years. And in September, it will finally be back down to just one lot of child bus fares when DS1 starts Secondary. BUT, because that is for Primary, I have had to pay for my OWN bus fares right up until April this year, when I qualified for a disability bus pass. So on top of those child fares, I've had to pay an adult fare every damn day for 8 years too.

I have variously been in NMW jobs as a WOHP whilst my partner was a SAHP, in a relationship with someone earning just £16.8k whilst being unemployed due to disability myself, and then a Lone Parent on benefits.

I still have to find the money to get my DC's to school every day...

Bus fares, Schmus fares.

She's a helicopter parent, who can't accept that for the majority of 11yo's, unless they have ASD or LD's or a disability, then they are quite capable of catching a bus to school.

Sorry, assumption central here - HE is a helicopter parent.

One of the twins may have SEN's whether diagnosed or not or there may be another problem such as bullying or anxiety or a daydreaming child that leads to it being difficult for them to go by bus. I had a child with SEN (now an adult) and it's horrible when people make comments about other children of that age being able to do it, really hurtful, It's like a really big reminder that your child has difficulties. People don't always want to share private information, so please be keep that in mind. In fact, sometimes when I have told people, they continue to disagree - oh he doesn't look like he has SEN, oh I know a child who had the same and he was able to do x, oh they're always diagnosing children these days it's just nonsense.

When I started walking my ds to secondary school, I was twice approached by the same shop assistant in the local supermarket to be told he ought to walk alone. It was horrible and there was no way I was going to share his private issues with her. If she'd done it any more I was going to complain to the supermarket.

Jan - I DO have a DC with SN's. I don't find it hurtful when people say that an 11yo can do this, or that - I KNOW it didn't apply to my DD, as she DOES have SN's.

It sure as hell applies to my DS1 though.

What people mean when they say "An 11yo can catch the bus" is that an NT 11yo can catch the bus.

I'm very quick to take offence to things that I see as being disablist - but I don't see that comment as being disablist. Rather, as not being as specific as some would like. But people aren't always entirely specific in their statements.

I personally quantified it by saying "an 11yo without ASD, SN's or other disability can catch the bus to Secondary".

Which is what other posters MEAN. They just aren't as specific as me because they don't have a DC with SN's!

Someone once said that my DD should be able to put on her own socks at 7yo. I just nodded, pointed at my then 3yo DS1 putting on his own socks, and asked them why they thought that my 3yo could do it and my 7yo couldn't. They walked off looking a bit sheepish. No need for me to take offence - they were just not engaging their brain!