to expect my colleague's Year 7 twins to be able to get the bus to school?

[MaryQueenOfSpots]

One of my colleagues has just moved house and the twin children are still at their previous school which is a 30 minute bus ride from the new house. Colleague has requested change of hours to accommodate driving children to school in the morning as "they are too young to take the bus". Colleague's DP works irregular shifts so cannot be depended upon for this.

It will affect the rest of the team because the colleague will not be able to attend the daily ward meeting at 8, so cover will need to be found. This is not impossible, but will not be as good as current situation. Continuity will be lost and junior unqualified staff will need to go instead of qualified colleague. There is likely to be some grumbling by another colleague who also has Year 7. child but allows them to make their own way to school. At the same time, other colleagues have had flexible arrangements made when returning from mat leave.

I am a very inexperienced team leader trying to sort out what is fair? Is it really unacceptable for 11 year olds to take a bus to school? I did when I was that age, but that was back in the dark ages...

What you need to do is consider the request without context within the reality of your business and decide if its feasible. If the service will suffer or it will incur a lot more cost then it's not reasonable and you can refuse.

You shouldn't really be considering whether or not 11 years olds can catch as bus because when you give get your decision you'll have to say why. Saying "it'll cost us £x and lead to x downgrade in service" is a good reason to say no. Saying "I think 11 year olds should ride the bus along" is a crap reason.

The other colleagues arrangements were made in a specific context. If they're no longer fit for purpose they should be reviewed. If they don't effect the business but this one does they should be treated differently.

This shouldn't be about "Karen works x hours so I want to too"

It depends on the children and on the situation. Do you want to have to ask this colleague how mature his children are, and listen to details of how they might be bullied on the bus (or whatever)?

Your colleague has the right to ask. If you can accommodate this, then you should.

they are 11 they are capable to get on a bus unless they are no buses that goes by the school then id say something she may say sometyhing about work/life balance though but in general 2 11 year olds can get on a bus to school

OK, as a team leader you balance service needs against employees requests. Granting this would impact your ability to deliver a safe and effective service. She is employed to do a job,she chose to move you didn't move her place of employment.Do not make it in any way personal ie mention her kids are old enough blah blah. Merely say you have considered her requests however service requirements mean you can't grant it.

Thanks also to those posters who rightly point out it isn't for me to judge their choices about how to get the children to school and to be careful how I phrase it. I am very inexperienced and have v little HR help.

I guess, being honest, it doesn't work at all for my team, and the ONLY reason I am giving it consideration is because I sympathise with trying to juggle the whole children and work nightmare.

Personally I think it's OK for year 7 children to catch a bus - but it is dependent on the children themselves.

My query to her though would be - why move house to somewhere where you couldn't fit you life into that location? (obv does not apply if it was a forced move).

If this move was planned she should have asked this before she agreed to move and based her decision on that.

V interesting how everyone assumes it's a woman!

OP you said "ward meeting" at the start, so am I right in thinking it's not a business but a hospital? If so, then no, that replacement junior colleague should not be filling in for Experienced Man. At least not if it could remotely lead to cock ups re patient safety.

You'd be massively at fault as a HCP manager if you let concern over someone else's domestic arrangements interfere with a crucial safety or organisational meeting in a hospital.

I would not allow it temporarily unless I was certain it could be reasonably continued. Does your organization not have a protocol for dealing with requests to work flexibly? If so, follow it, if not, ask your line manager.

At the least have a formal meeting with the colleague to allow him to make his case. Then you will know if you are dealing with additional needs.

From what you say you work in a medical environment is that right? If you are not getting hr help, and have been given a job you are inexperienced to do, you are vulnerable. Ask for the support you need and document it.

or as tween put it but in a much better way!

Also agree with you're winning - he should have factored this in. And if he is not junior and his wife works then they are unlikely to be so badly off that they cannot afford U16 bus passes.

I know a 14 year old who is not allowed the 15 min walk to school/ 8 min by bus, because of dangers . His father walks with him and picks him up from school. The father is separated from the mother and lives away from the child, and lives 45 mins away by bus. Each morning, the father gets on the bus for a 45 min journey, picks and takes his son to school (he is self employed) and picks him up again after school and takes the son to his house. He then returns his son back home after mother finishes work and is at home about 7pm.

When you ask him why all this, he says 'haven't you seen kids being kidnapped/killed/ in the news? he also calms it's his bonding time with his son.

In Inner London, not the greatest area but it's hardly Compton!

The reason for flexible working requests have sweet fa to do with the business response to them and you need to be very careful about this. Try reporting in legal if you really don't have any HR advice. If you think it's do-able short term then you can get the worker to sort of re-ask on that basis. Be very, very careful about allowing someone's request just because they are valued. Because if you say no to the next person, they could well extrapolate it to mean they are not valued...

But really, whether 500 MNers say an 11 yo can get the bus or not, it doesn't matter. Can your business support the request? It sounds like you can't.. But maybe you can accept a short-term change till the holidays?

revolting that is a good point about safety - in this case I can be sure it wouldn't be compromised by a junior colleague going instead of Experienced Man

myo I will check the Trust website and see if I can speak to an HR bod (they are elusive creatures). There used to be training in these HR issues, now you are meant to make sense of the policy and sort it out yourself...

God, I wish I hadn't been talked into covering the Team leaders Mat leave...

I really appreciate all the good advice here. Wilson you put it really well that I need to clearly separate the personal reasons for asking from the business answer I give to him.

It was so much easier moaning about the boss, than being the boss....

I don't think its relevant whether they can get the bus - if they can't get a bus she could pay someone to drive them there. The cost of her childcare isn't really your problem -eg many people with kids, especially at primary school have pay for childcare for an hour in the morning to get kids to school.

I would say that having reviewed it, you'd have to compromise the service / care being offered, and so you can't accommodate the flexible working.

I know its difficult. Could you run your thoughts past a more experienced colleague maybe?

Also loving how everyone is assuming the worker is a woman!

The colleague needs to put in a formal flexible working request.

You then accept or reject it based on the business reasons (and if missing a ward meeting risks sub-optimal care, then that is a clear reason to reject). How the colleague arranges and affords childcare isn't an employer's responsibility. Safe and effective ward management is.

Many thanks to everyone who has posted.

Wilson it would be a good idea to run things past someone more experienced. Unfortunately, no one has been given much formal training and I've seen other people make some right cock ups particularly with capability and performance.

Scarily, I'm better off asking strangers on the Internet

Yes. I think you A.B.U T.B.H. She wants to make sure her children are safe where is the harm in that. Being on mumsnet I hope you do not mind me taking the liberty in thinking you're a mum yourself so therefore you should understand that she obviously has her reasons. xx

Are you the colleague - therefore none of your business really - or are you the boss making the decision?

Either way yabu - scenario 1 as above
Scenario 2 - follow guidelines for flexible working in your own organisation/legal rights for flexibility - font ask for anonymous opinions on the Internet

It's a he C999875.

I think the op is also concerned about making sure her service-users are safe too? Or is that not compatible with 'being a mum'?

What is Year 7? In Scotland, that's the last year of primary school. My DD1 will start P7 in August, is that the same? She will be 10.5 yrs. There's no way on hell I'd let her get a bus on her own.

Does your workplace have a policy on social media? This situation sounds pretty identifiable - what would happen if your colleague saw this and complained?

AuntMargaret - in England, it's 11yrs+ .... "Rising 12s". 1st year of secondary, when the vast majority of children will be getting themselves to school.