to think that all the people who have a problem with people using "girls" instead of "women"

[CartwrightMiss]

Should say "womanfriend" instead of "girlfriend"?

[gron]

ILTB, there's plenty of research into it. You could look it up.

Your figures are wrong. 173 workers were fatally injured in the last yearly recording period, according to the HSE. I don't know the gender breakdown of those stats.

do you ever, you know, go out and mix with Actual People who can work full time - men and women - in a range of physically demanding occupations?

"What sexist barriers are there to doing tling, central heating instalation, welding, car mechanics etc? i wasnt aware there were any?"

Apart from the fact that they are VERY rarely presented to girls as options? When I were a lass girls didn't get to do car mechanics at school and I'd have received very odd reactions if I said I wanted to do any of those other things. It wouldn't even have occurred to me to do them as those things were clearly marked for boys.

There are so many blue collar jobs that it would be great to get women into, like many areas of construction but girls are fed the stupid idea that it's not for them.

Having the equal right to do something isn't the same as having the equal opportunity.

seeker . Do I remind you of someone?

Yep.

"Yes, many vets are women, yes women can drive HGVs but not a full working day"

What do you even mean by this?!

That female Vets physically can't work a full working day? That female HGV drivers physically can't work a full working day?

What are you talking about? Where on earth have you got the idea from that woman cannot work full working days in physically demanding jobs?

Is it something you dreamt up yourself or is it based on any evidence or experience of people (particularly women) working in jobs like that?

Is anyone else reading ILTB as "I Leave The Bastard"?

How did this thread descend into a discussion based on the logic that if men are stronger then they must be superior? By that daft logic you could say that men will never be able to give birth so they are inferior. Which of course is just plain mean....we're all born the way we're born after all.

Anyhow, I just came on here to answer the original question really which was:

boys / girls = ok
gents / ladies = ok
men / women = ok
men / girls = not ok (and often happens)
boys / women = not ok (and happens rarer than a blue moon)

Sorry clara, that post wasnt clear.
I meant vets do indeed work full days.
And no to women driving HGVs all day [though perhaps on refelection they do exist, but I have never seen any. Just asked hubby that question and he reckons of the HGV drivers that he sees,[he sees quite a number], about 5% are women].

TheDoctrineOfSnatch . Just as well really that I have just written that last post!

Please will somebody tell me why because 50% of oil rig workers aren't women, 50% of people round the Cabinet table can't be either. Particularly considering that 50% of care home workers, nursery teachers and check out workers aren't men, but men stills age to be in the majority when it comes to managing directors, senior politicians and senior civil servants. To name but three professions.

Because women aren't part of society, as society consists of garages and oil rigs. Hospitals and schools are not part of society.

It is like in the Lord of the Rings when the ents lose the entwives. Men were with women one day and the next day we had all vanished from society and they literally have no idea where we have gone.

seeker that's what I'm not getting...

I don't see the connection. And I don't see why the "men's" jobs ILTB keeps mentioning are so much more important to equality than the many jobs that are majority female.

ILTB So those 5% of HGV drivers that are female and who presumably work full working days disprove your assertion that women can't do it. Do you get that?

Is you fick or what, Seeker? If the girlies don't do everything the blokes do, it's coz they ain't good enough, innit. Girlies ain't big enough or hard enough. And you gotta be hard to run the country. Girlies, though, they is wusses, you get me? If they wanna be big & hard, they better get their HGV license and prove it.

Only then will girls be tough enough to be called women, and run for PM. Got it?

I bet David Cameron has a HGV licence.

Yep, and you just can't keep him out of the grease pit!

Can I just say how much I am enjoying this? I want to applaud Freya's Entwives analogy, it made me snort in an 'unladylike' fashion.

I'm mildly addicted to Outback Truckers (I blame the children) there seem to be quite a few women driving the Road Trains in Australia. A Road Train makes a UK HGV look like a van.

There are a fair number of women driving buses in London too.

@garlic. Anytime I want anything explained in the future, I'll come straight to you.

I will probably get deleted for this, but I do think ILTB has been on this topic before, with a different name and perhaps a different gender. Hard though it is, I wonder whether ignore, ignore, ignore might be the best policy.

Ilikethebreeze

I think (although could be totally wrong) what you're talking about is the 'glass cellar'. It's a new term on me but is allegedly part of our workforce that women rarely aspire to.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glass%20cellar

I kind of get where you're coming from although dont believe men are superior, just dominant. IMHO it's an evolutionary thing but I digress.

Much fuss in the press and also on feminist websites make a big play on female representation in FTSE100 companies and parliament but never really in any sector that men have almost always worked in since the dawn of time and through industrialisation.

Times are changing though as we are encouraging our daughters to challenge traditional gender roles. As such I hope to see a lot more women taking up a lot more of these jobs, which also tend to be quite highly paid. Win win situation IMHO.

If the situation was reversed, and the majority of politicians and influential people were women, would you think that men were making a 'fuss' if they also wanted to be in positions of influence, and tell them they shouldn't expect equality until they took up 50% of jobs as cleaners, fish processors, nursery staff etc?

I created this thread and have no idea what the hell is even happening on it now.

It's all about balance and I'm not saying equality should be expected when there is a 50/50 split across the board. It's just that the focus is always on the cream of society's jobs.

So yes, I would still say the same if the roles were reversed and men only talked about FTSE100 jobs and parliament. Call me cynical but it outwardly appears that the interest is not in 'all' of society but just the pleasant parts. As for the rest of the shite this can be left to the men.

And don't forget that just because women do no hold visible positions of power that women have no influence. Women have and have always had huge influence in a great many areas. There is just no way the human race would have got this far with men making all the important decisions.

Women do loads of shite jobs, Techno. The only person who thinks feminism wants even more shite jobs for women is Ilike! The shite jobs done mainly by men are better-paid than the ones done mainly by women.

In your earlier post, you said women haven't shown interest in jobs traditionally done by men. This is incorrect. Office work and teaching provide two prime examples of high-status, well-paid roles that became lower-status and less well-paid when many women entered them. It's reasonably safe to assume that, if most women were crane operators, crane operating would no longer be a plum job.

Feminism wants women in positions of high-level influence so they can change things towards a more equal world.

Sorry, if most crane operators were women [stat fail]