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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

or is ex re: only communicating in person?

40 replies

LittleLisa78 · 01/06/2013 23:59

DD's father and I have been separated for 4 years and are fairly amicable but every now and then we have a mini fall out as he refuses to communicate by any means except in person. This means if we make an arrangement to swap a date for example and he forgets then when the time comes he moans about it and we fall out. If I text or email to confirm arrangements he won't respond, nor will he discuss anything about DD except in person. I think email is better as then there's a record of agreed arrangements to fall back on. For example:about two months ago I asked if we could swap a date so DD could be at her sisters party and he agreed. Two weeks ago I text to remind him and asked if he wanted to arrange which date he wanted in return - no reply. Today I text clarifying arrangements for this month as they're disrupted by the swap and to ensure he has her for father's day. He replied saying he wanted one of my days which is next weekend as the swap and has already made plans which he's told DD about. However we have a weekend away planned which has been booked for over 6 months so I can't let him have it and now he's kicking off.
AIBU to say communication only in person is unrealistic and not working and to insist he communicate in other ways too?

OP posts:
FreyaSnow · 02/06/2013 00:02

I don't think communicating in person only is a good idea. Are there not online calendars you can share?

Original poster
LittleLisa78 · 02/06/2013 00:02

He's kicking off saying I can't have DD for her sisters party by the way which was planned, booked and paid for after he said yes to the swap and DD would be heartbroken if she missed it but I can't afford to pay twice

OP posts:
FannyBazaar · 02/06/2013 00:05

YANBU but I've no idea how you can convince him of that. My ex is like this too, ignores texts and emails, contact is arranged when I pick up DS and he says 'see you next week' or 'see you in two weeks time'. If it is not possible to commit to a date or time at pick up then it is done on the phone with DS and very occasionally phone is passed to me. I have continued to insist that all arrangements should be made through me by text or email.

I have now given up caring about being 5 minutes late and as nothing is confirmed in writing, if I am going to be late I just phone and ask where I should be picking up from or when and say I forgot because it wasn't in a text. It is actually ex who is most likely to forget.

FannyBazaar · 02/06/2013 00:08

BTW when I send an email, I copy in ex's sister who has been hoping to see ex and DS. That way there is a witness and if he wants to moan that he doesn't get to see DS, there is proof of the dates and times on offer. I still know I won't get replies from him.

Original poster
LittleLisa78 · 02/06/2013 00:12

Our DD is only 5 though so we need to communicate better. He's going away on holiday next week and told her she can't go because of me - he booked it last min and hasn't seen me so hasn't asked (though I suspect that's accidentally on purpose!) If I have issues I email him and then we discuss in person but I'd rather there be a record

OP posts:
Original poster
LittleLisa78 · 02/06/2013 00:16

It's just frustrating because every school holiday I was emailing to ask if he'd like any extra contact and was ignored so this half term I didn't ask figuring it's up to him to tell me if he's booked time off so we can make arrangements from there and today (as half term ends, conveniently!) He complained that he was not considered with regard to half term...!

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 02/06/2013 02:10

Haven't we had this conversation before?

The easy way to force people to communicate with in using provable methods is to just refuse any other type of communications.

At the start of doing it you will have to not want any changes yourself and ignore his unless he communicates in writing.

Seriously its that simple do not verbally converse with him beyond polite small talk if he attempts to verbally arrange anything you say I need that in writing please txt or email is good for me, have a nice time. Then absent yourself be polite be nice just be firm.

SquinkiesRule · 02/06/2013 06:21

Maybe he'd prefer to communicate through solicitors.
I'd want it all by email and text for proof of what was said if he is being an ass.
Keep emailing and texting, ignore his attempts to talk about it in person.

Lweji · 02/06/2013 06:53

What the others said.

Just don't engage in conversation and refuse to do any arrangements except by e-mail.

Personally, with such an awkward person I wouldn't be asking for favours until regular e-mail communication was in place.

BlatantRedhead · 02/06/2013 06:56

Ugh! He sounds like a man-child wanting to be asked every time even though he never bothers to respond! I'd insist on text/email if I were you.

StuntGirl · 02/06/2013 09:02

What sock said.

Email anyway. Close the email with "If you wish to make any amendments to these plans please email a reaponse by X date, otherwise I will assume you're happy to go ahead as is".

lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 09:10

Yep, the postal service still exists. It is possible to have a written record without relying on electronic communication.

I might also buy paper diaries specially for these arrangements and spend a moment updating these when you see him, so you can check that he's written in the right thing.

He's clearly deliberately messing around with the stuff about not being able to take her on a last minute hol. When exactly did he ok that with you, in person? He didn't, so it's clearly a no, on his terms.

lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 09:13

Also, why aren't you phoning instead of using emails which you know he'll ignore? That counts as in person, surely? Letter, followed up by phone call and diary check at handover.

People dealt with these sorts of arrangements before email and texts.

Original poster
LittleLisa78 · 02/06/2013 09:28

I've called too but he also 'forgets' or 'gets muddled up' after these and then just denies what I've written we've discussed. He gets arsey if I try and diary check at handover as he thinks I'm trying to prove to DD that I'm being reasonable and he then can't lie to her about me having said no to things we've never discussed. It seems petulant for me to say 'i'll only make arrangements via email and otherwise won't communicate' but I realise he is being just as petulant by saying he'll only communicate in person - I don't see why we can't just combine both to have a system that works for DD's best interests

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 10:06

So he's not sticking to his own system. He needs to identify what system he can operate reliably and do so.

The way you've worded the diary thing is interesting, essentially from his point of view. From yours, you are being reasonable, it's a reliable method given his memory problems and is in person. If he were reasonable he'd do it. Challenge him to come up with any real reason not to do it. It makes you look reasonable is not a reason! Wouldn't he like to look reasonable too? If he is being, who cares what anyone thinks?

lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 10:11

It just seems that your complaint really, is 'he likes messing me around via dd and doesn't care that he upsets her in the process'. Or 'he likes to promise Dd things he can't deliver to impress her and to make her see me badly, as the person always saying no.' He'll do this by any method, so that's irrelevant.

Can you go to solicitors and get a more formal arrangement and process in place? Letters via them for changes?

BoneyBackJefferson · 02/06/2013 10:22

Why don't you just do both?

It doesn't matter if he doesn't respond. Discuss with him in person then send an email confirming what has been said.

Any problems tell him to look at the email you sent after takling to him. At least you are covered.

lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 11:52

Repeating myself a bit but, the problem is encapsulated in the phrase 'it makes me look reasonable', in reference to using diaries.

Most parents would be seeking a mutually reasonable approach in the best interests of your dd. Your ex does not want this.

He wants to play you off against each other so he can win dd's favour while making her dislike and resent you. So he wants contact to be a battle, in which only one person can look reasonable at any time. This is what he's told you.

Really, tell him that given his abnormal memory and organisational problems he needs to identify an approach that meets his needs, so one that he can operate reliably. If he cannot propose and successfully operate such, you will go through a solicitor to make all arrangements more formal, in writing only. You don't want to but he's not offering any other option.

IneedAsockamnesty · 02/06/2013 13:30

Lottie, that's rather dramatic and given that legal aid no longer exists for normal family law cases and the op is not especially well off,it is highly unlikely she is in a position to be doing that. Do you have any idea how much it would cost her ( and it would be her not him) to communicate regularly via solicitors it could easily run into thousands.

Why should his mind games and silly attempts to manipulate things end up costing her money?

Its also rather like trying to crack an egg with a hammer

lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 15:04

If there's an alternative solution that doesn't cost money, great. Cost aside it is a logical position, following what she's told us.

Flippant suggestion: buy a dictaphone. All arrangements made in person, recorded and played back as required.

Stated more generally, take all of my previous post up to the penultimate sentence and alter to '...such, you will insist upon a mutually practicable and reliable method of your choosing and this will be the only method used.' That could be diaries, letters or email, or conversation followed up in writing.

It worries me that the OP thinks that adopting this, logical, reasonable position, having given him every opportunity to make his preferred approach work, would be petulant. It would not, it would be in her dd's best interests.

The ex is a tough nut to crack because he is determined to be unreasonable and happy to upset his dd in the process. Hence 'no written record, so i can piss about and mess with dds impression of you as much as i like'.

The OP has her dd's best interests at heart, so is compelled, however unfair this is on her, to be the grown up in this situation, never mind unpopular that makes her with the childish, manipulative ex.

IneedAsockamnesty · 02/06/2013 15:07

Or she could just do the same as him refuse all other forms of communication that are not written.

Its fairly easy and also fairly normal with regard to child contact.

lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 15:16

But the problem will be, what when he doesn't comply, how does she enforce the arrangement? Keep dd from him at non-mutually agreed times, be subjected to emotional blackmail about limiting contact and stubborn inflexibility about changes she'd like to make? Probably.

Perhaps the question is whether her putting up with that would be better for dd than the present 'ex playing games with her' arrangements. I'd have thought it probably would.

lottiegarbanzo · 02/06/2013 15:22

Well yes, written communication only is encompassed in my suggestion above and is the obvious thing to do.

pinkballetflats · 02/06/2013 17:02

Hmm...bit controlling isn't he? Insist on written communication for the reasons you've already outlined. Then, communicate by written communication. If he doesn't reply, tough - you've sent him the information required for contact, he's ignored it.

I had this with my ex - except his reasons were so he could swear at me and liken me to psychopathic film characters down the phone without a trace of evidence of his abuse. I didn't back down.

IneedAsockamnesty · 02/06/2013 18:18

Well lottie he will soon learn to make requests in writing won't he.