to consider going full-time?

[cheekymonk]

Hi all, have posted here as I know there are usually more responses! Dh and I are in grim financial situation. he works fulltime, earns 32k. I do 30 hours per week and earn 17k. We are in an IVA but this ends in Sept 2013. This will free up a very much needed £230 per month. We get child benefits but no tax credits. Our childcare bill is quite big. Cm is £375 per month and nursery is £260 per month. We have DD who is 2 and DS who is 8. Mortgage is £839 and crippling. It is an NRAM mortgage, house was recently valued at £130K , but we bought house at £119k but got a secured loan so mortgage was £141K. Have been here 7 years now and no chance of being able to upgrade/move due to IVA and our terrible credit rating/no money for deposit/no equity. We struggle month to month, last 2 months dh and I pawning our wedding rings for food as we have no back up of credit card or overdraft. we have used payday loans in past but got totally sucked into it and have paid the price.
SO, I have been thinking of going full-time, plenty of women do it but am worried about the impact on the family, someone else giving them tea, seeing them so little and finding time for quality time rather than chores. We have had such a lovely bank holiday, the thought of being away from them more saddens me but if working more meant we could have more nice days I would do it. Lack of money affects the kids, always having to add up what is in trolley, going to the bloody park nearly every weekend. they don't really go without, I know it could be worse but there is such a lot of guilt attached. Would you go full-time in my position?
I do love my job...

You would really jeopardise your IVA at this stage? I'm not being pious but I am shocked. Such a drastic financial measure should be absolutely pivotal in your life and mark a complete change in your financial conduct, to be honest.

I am talking from a position of knowledge. I'm now 6 years post bankruptcy and my attitudes to money have completely changed.

IVAs are there to give people who are desperate a way out. If people abuse them, they will soon be harder to achieve.

Really if you're in an IVA you shouldn't be having to pawn things to buy basics. Either you need to go back to the CAB and look at getting your IVA reviewed or you need to reconsider your spending. There actually looks like plenty built into your budget for housekeeping and other expenditure, do you know where that £800 a month is going?

That's the problem, I'm not sure that Dh and I are any better at budgeting really. All the IVA has achieved is the sense of shame and made us feel like 2nd class citizens for having no money. As for £800 not sure what you mean? Do you mean the money put together for food and entertainment? We keep a monthly budget sheet and tick off what has been paid but what we have been rubbish at is say, knowing our entertainment/leisure budget for week is x amount. I don't see it as abusing our IVA, I see it as doing what we can to make ends meet. The IVA has had higher contributions when we have been able to afford it. We are just trying to hang on and get the IVA completed.

Needs must when the devil drives.

I don't see whey you should not go up to fulltime when your finances are in this state. Pt is a luxury you cannot afford.

I meant the lines for housekeeping and other expenditure on your budget, they add up to over £800. Do you know what you spend it on?

I think the comment on abusing your IVA was about your plan to not inform them if you go full time.

It is abusing the IVA, absolutely.

It is a legal agreement in which you are bound to terms and conditions. Your lenders take it on good faith that you are complying with strict terms and that your administrators are holding you to them.

If you take on extra work and do not declare it, you are risking huge trouble. Your IVA could fail, leading to bankruptcy with only months to go.

I think you should really consider an evening job, if you worked 2 evenings a week and your DP could cover the childcare that would give you additional money. It would hopefully be easier for the family than you working full time. You would need to inform your IVA, it is illegal not to do so.

TBH, I am struggling to see why you have ended up in this position when your household income is almost £3k per month and your mortgage payments are fairly average. I'm trying not to be judgemental, but if I were in your shoes I would be looking at why I had ended up in this position when many families manage perfectly well on what is an above-average household income. Because if you don't work that bit out, you are likely to run into the same problems again.

MrsGrowbag is right. Our income is less than 2/3 of yours with similar outgoings. We have less housekeeping/other expenditure money and I would say we were fairly comfortable. You will be very comfortable once your IVA finishes. It would be worth getting help with your budgeting now
so that this never happens again.

Getting a grip on what you are spending and budgetting properly will 'earn' you a lot more than any extra hours at work and won't risk your IVA which could completely screw you over.

Your housekeeping and other expenditure are huge amounts. There is absolutely no way you should need to be pawning items for food.

You and your H need to get a proper grip on you finances or even after the IVA is done you'll still be in a financial mess. I'd recommend doing a spending diary, you each note down every penny you spend and what it is on. After a month take a real hard look at where your money is going. Quite often people will find that the spend diary does not add up, that is sobering in itself as you realise the spends you didn't think mattered can add up to hundreds. Multiply those little spends and you could find that the odd coffee or magazine could end up costing you the same as a lovely holiday each year. Which would you rather have?

The debt free wanabee board on MSE is very helpful and has lots of support, motivating challenges and inspiring stories. Check out the old style board for cheap recipes and household budgetting.

Debt is horrible, I never want to go into that black hole ever again. You can sort this and it will feel amazing wen all the worry and stress is gone.

Up until January this year in had my head buried firmly in the sand about my/our finances.

What I do now, is get a statement printout on payday to see exactly how much is in my account (overdraft). I then draw out IN CASH what I need to spend (petrol money and train fare) and keep it in an envelope at home. I pay my train fare up front for a month and just take out petrol money as and when I need to fill the car.

This means I have no need to touch my account or the rest of the month.

I also work out exactly how much needs to stay in my bank account for my personal debts (mobile, personal credit card, overdraft fees etc) and how much I can transfer to the joint account.

Also, when our childminder has a weeks holiday (like this week) I take out what I would have spent on her fee and put it aside in a savings account to build up for emergencys or things like our heating oil refill.

I/we are VERY tight each month but we are coping, even with the odd treat, like posh ice-cream one a month.

Tesco vouchers are brilliant, as is shopping on a Sunday afternoon for the reduced goods, and getting value or own brand (Dolmio pasta sauce - £2 odd, Tesco pasta sauce - 75p for the same size jar). I can sometimes get a weekly shop for £20.

Good luck, and don't do anything daft that could hurt you further. If you have an IVA in place, stick with it, or ask for it to be reviewed.

I'm pretty flabbergasted at your housekeeping and other expenditure figure.

You could maybe have £200 for that and reliable the rest as 'waste'

What on earth is other? And housekeeping that high is pretty atrocious

One tip that served me well when I got my finances sorted was to write down how you felt when the debts were at their worse and that most spends weren't big things but little 'treats' that added up to huge debt. The worry, the fear, maybe not being able to feed you children, what if you have nothing to pawn next time, what then? I wrote it all on a card and put it in my purse. When tempted to spend I looked at the card and asked myself if what I wanted was worth feeling like that again?

I think that we are in a cycle really. Already this month, DH was paid on 23rd and we are overdrawn by £29. I need petrol and am driving around on the red. We have spent about £160 on food shop. Our housekeeping budget is what we spend. its not all top brands at all , many own brand but few basic brands I admit. This weekend we went swimming on Monday which cost £13 and got lunch for about £8. On sunday we went to theme park for day with prepaid tickets but spent about £20 frittering. On sat was kfc for the 4 of us. More extravagant than normal as its the bank holiday weekend. We just seem terrible at planning I do admit. I want to get to root of our budgeting too. I want to learn from our mistakes and sort it out once and for all. I think the days that are horrible and we don't have a penny seem to cause us to overspend when we do have money. How stupid is that?! We don't have lots of coffees or magazines. I make all of our lunches 9 times out of 10. We probably eat out more than we can afford which could be looked at. I think we probably do need to lower our standards if a box of nice ice-cream is considered a treat. I grew up with cupboards full of goodies so it can be hard to get away from. there are always lots of crisps and choc bars in the house plus everyone loves yoghurts. these items alone cost a fortune. I do appreciate all the comments as I want to sort this out.
I have looked back on previous bank statement and totted up figs but there was £270 cash withdrawals that I couldn't account for. Sorting this out alone would solve a lot of problems.
Our housekeeping budget is atrocious? Really??? What is the average then??

Oh dear I didn't think you were allowed an overdraft with an IVA? I thought that you had to undertake not to increase your debt.

I'm wondering how you view your finances? I know before we filed bankruptcy, I viewed the overdraft as pretty much 'our' money. So, if our OD limit was £500, I saw us as having a 'budget' of wages+£500. Crazy!

I didn't realise that until after we declared bankruptcy. Being in overdraft was so 'normal' for us at that time and the bank just kept increasing it. Until one day they didn't.

Now, we have spent 6 years with never going overdrawn. We don't have any credit whatsoever. In fact, I panic when there is less than £300 in the account, and DH is on a low wage.

We don't have an overdraft it is unauthorised but I know what you mean about seeing overdraft as more money. I see it as normal to use my card somewhere when I don't have the money ie. asda pay at pump when I see this written down it sounds terrible. it just all feels like a game of survival and what can I do today to survive? Thankfully have never had to resort to shoplifting.

Hi

I would recommend Alvin Hall, Get out of Debt book.
Follow that for a month writing down everything (EVERYTHING!) you spend, and then seeing exactly what you spend and where. You will then know what you need to leave in the bank and how much you truly have to spare.
Then what LadyFlump said - draw that out in cash. That is what you have got for the month that is it.
What it sounds like to me is you are spending too much on food, take outs and last minute purchases.

You can do this, but get control of it now, otherwise this magic £200+ that you are 'free to spend' when they IVA comes away will not even touch the sides if you do not have control of your spending.

Read that book. Changed my life. I am so in control now. And I am a single parent on £1000 less a month than you working full time, with full time childcare costs.
I'm off to Spain this year, buy a new outfit twice a year (plus bras undies etc) and a new bundle of clothes in the next size/ next season of ebay for my ds. He then gets new clothes for xmas and a footy kit at Christmas of his dad.

I have a takeaway if I have friends staying, but now save £200 a month (yes that's what I spent on take out/convenience food) by cooking four gorgeous slimming world curries on a Sunday and freezing them. I get it out THursday night and on a Friday I have this. I also buy pizzas and have those in the freezer for a can't be arsed cooking night.

Your gas and electric bill sounds really good. WHo are you with? I have a three bed semi and just got a revised bill for £167 today with Eon - rip off! THat is the next thing I am going to look at!

I've been where you are it is not fun, you have to mentally strong not to fritter and treat yourself when you do not have it.

Get rid of sky and buy cheap dvds. You will still have freeview. (I know, you need sky as you cant afford to go out so this is your only fun/ one indulgence) - remember, I've been there x

Keep talking, find a chat goup (feel free to message me about it). It is a bit like dieting, you need to keep it at the forefront of your mind, but feel good and in control.

as a job, I can highly recommend babysitting. Cash in hand, and people love that you have your own children. It is not taxing after a hard days work either. I put up a sign in Tesco. I babysat for five families 3 nights a week when my mum could mind my son (so what nights suit your hsband)- do not spend it all on takeaways. Put it towards the cash yu draw out for what you can afford.

After debt free, you need to build up a savings pot of 3 months salary. Read Alvin :-)

op, you've got a combined income of 49k.

its not a game of survival...or mention shoplifting!!

you and your dh need to control yourselves, you need to learn to live in your budget

until you do, you'll be in a mess all the time

make contact with CAB, they might be able to suggest debt counselling

it has been though ssd, when you have no milk or are down to last 2 or 3 nappies or struggling to put a meal together with what is left in the cupboards... I agree though that we are not homeless and it could be much worse. Will talk with dh about all of these suggestions. It IS helping so thank you ALL x

Denying yourself then splurging is a pretty common thing I think! Maybe your treats need to be a lot cheaper...Fruit Corners are 5 for £3 .

Alvin Hall's books are good. This one's 99p if you have a Kindle, or your local library will have them. Are you making the most of free activities offered by library/museums btw?

www.amazon.co.uk/Money-Magic-Simple-Financial-Freedom/dp/0340998504/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369843633&sr=1-2

Sorry the is just because I love Fruit Corners, debt is no laughing matter.

OP - the other thing I found useful was to become completely retentive about getting and keeping receipts for EVERYTHING. I mean everything. Including cash withdrawals (try not to do that).

Get a shoebox, put all your receipts into it, then at the end of the month, when you get your bank statement through, go through it with your receipts and tick off as you go. This will make sure there are no unauthorised transactions, and should also highlight where your unexpected spend is.

Also, try not to withdraw cash.

You take £20 out of the cash point. It's only £20 right? Wrong. It goes in your wallet. You buy something for £10.99 with it. You now have £9 in your wallet that could have still wen in your bank. Use cards where you can, it's an exact amount.

cheekymonk the issue isn't that you are short of milk or that you are on your last 2 nappies. It's that you aren't prioritising essentials over luxuries.

If you are paid on 23rd May, have £500 built into your budget for 'housekeeping' and are into your Unauthorised Overdraft by 29th May, then you have overspent.

You did 3 expensive activities at the weekend. Let's not get hung up on 'well it was a Bank Holiday weekend.' So what? It was a Bank Holiday weekend here as well, and we spent nothing. The children still had a nice time. A morning going up and down the estate on their bikes with neighbourhood children. Lunch with Nanny and Grandad on Sunday. Playing in the garden.

You were paid on the 23rd of May, then spent £21, £20 and (I'm guessing the cost of KFC here) £25 on the 25th, 26th and 27th May. That's £66 that you spent, when you only had "£37.

The saddest thing is that living with an IVA is a really tough experience, and you are going to come out of it with none of the benefits.

All of our family live away and I think I have realised only this week and DS has started with a new childminder, that he needs more people in his day to day life that make him feel important. My parents love him very much but they are 3 hours away. My Mum comes down when she can. I think I try to overcompensate taking them here there and everywhere to make up for it. DS used to play outside but fell out with some of the kids so doesn't enjoy that. Our garden is tiny and our street is pretty much back to back.
We will feel the benefits of coming out of the IVA but not as quickly as we should. We are going to change.

Get rid of the overdraft - if it is unauthorised you will already be incurring charges & starting that spiral of debt again! Most people I know of in an IVA about to complete have got to grasp with the budget & use the money they would have spent on the Iva for savings when it is finished. You have 3 months until the end of the IVA to really itemise your spending & stick to a budget - I really don't think you would then need to go full time.

I honestly think you need to do something radical. Otherwise you are going to need another IVA within a few years.

DH and I talked about repairing our credit rating. Just discussing it made it obvious to me that DH couldn't cope with a credit card. It's just too easy to slip into old ways.

It's quite scary that you can be coming to the end of a 5 year IVA and you haven't got to grips with your spending.

I'm sorry you don't have family close to hand. That isn't a reason to be financially irresponsible, though.