to think that within a few years we will be paying to visit the GP,Conservatives consider limit on GP visits

[MiniTheMinx]

The Conservatives have considered limiting the number of times patients can visit their family doctor in a year, it has emerged.

"Labour health spokesman Jamie Reed told the Independent on Sunday: "This paper, hidden away on their website, reveals the Tories' true agenda for the NHS. After throwing the NHS open to ever more privatisation with a wasteful and damaging reorganisation, it seems the Tories want to go even further.
"It's shocking that they are considering limiting the number of times patients can see their GP - changing the fundamental principle in the NHS constitution that access to the NHS is based on clinical need.
"The Tories have already wasted £3bn on a top-down reorganisation of the NHS and overseen a crisis in A&E - now they are consulting their members on opening up the NHS to even more competition, and making it harder for patients to see GPs in the evenings and at weekends."

A Conservative Party spokesman said: "This was simply a topic to provoke discussion and isn't Conservative Party policy."

Yet.

We all know where we are headed with this don't we? or am I being an unreasonable old cynic?

sorry forgot the link.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10081220/Conservatives-consider-limit-on-GP-visits.html

Why don't we just pay into a kind of national health insurance scheme, so we can see our GPs when we need to?

and what about those with disabled who need their gp a lot?

That's why a national health insurance scheme would be good marjproops. I'm surprised no-one's thought of it already.

It worries me as some vulnerable people have little contact with other human beings and the GP is their only lifeline.

It's not going to happen because it would alienate old people i.e. the people most likely to turn up and vote.

I visit my doctors very rarely - possibly once a year and only when I am either really worried or have been ill for more than 2 weeks. I do everything I can to avoid going - self help then visiting the chemist before going in. but I know lots of GP's as friends. they have regulars. people whose only illness is being old. they are up there once twice or three times a week. they have to be seen they cant be dismissed as bonkers in case this is the one time when they are actually ill. this is the dilemma we all face. when the health service was set up it was last resort. now it is the first and resources cannot cope. I don't necessarily agree with limits on visits but something has to be done. My DM is 80 and thinks the reason that she doesn't have the energy of a 50 year old is because she is "ill". No you are old dear and this is why you cant do the garden for 3 hours and not feel a bit stiff. how would you suggest we deal with this then OP.

I guess it depends on the level it is set at, which I can't see in that article? Are we talking 2 visits a year or 20?
I think I'd also like to see a number of conditions you can visit for - so if you get a dressing which needs changing every day, thats one condition, or your diabetes reviews only count once.

I can just see it pushing things onto A&E or OOH, or heaven forbid 111.

I would happily pay to see my GP if it meant I could get an appointment sooner!

Currently have to wait weeks

At the moment the Cons are consulting with their grass roots activists and party members, many of whom we hope might be aged but all the same I think this gives a clear indication where we are headed.

GPs are already now not just the gate keepers to other services but they are the commissioners. They hold the NHS purse strings. So if you limit access to GPs you limit access to all health care.

What about me then, Mummymeister?

I'm 22. I see my GP once a fortnight if I'm lucky. I take 26 tablets a day, and have had numerous life-saving operations. Sometimes, I see a GP and nothing can be done. Sometimes, I need new meds, or a hospital referral, or something else. It's impossible to tell which until I've seen them.

Should I be limited? I can't even book a holiday longer than a fortnight, because I wouldn't manage. I'd be dead without continued medical care. I was privately insured, but the NHS wouldn't work with my insurance, so I rely on my GP now.

I'm not the only one, either. I'm not unique. There are thousands like me. Who struggle through every day, and who really NEED to see their doctor.

For what it's worth, I hate it. I'm constantly being tested, medicated, trying to get to the doctors.

But if the Tories limit GP visits, I'll be dead. And so will hundreds of others who need active, regular management.

Some old people may actually need to see their GP, too. They could have Alzheimer's, or dementia, or cancer, or something that actually requires treatment. Or mental health problems, that they need treatment for. Or arthritis. Or any number of things, actually, that they deserve help for.

Perhaps it falls back on family members to stop people wasting GPs time?

Or perhaps the Tories should stop targeting those of us who tried not to be a burden, and ended up being one anyway.

Yeah, that would really help with the A&E crisis wouldn't it. Idiots.

The problem with private insurance is that it can be limited or made very expensive according to risk. The older you are or if you have life limiting or chronic conditions you might find insurance is too expensive or simply not available to you.

re read my post caja. you are 22 not 80. you have a long standing chronic illness (guessing this from your post) there is a massive difference between that and the old person down there every week for a bit of a chat and some company. we are an aging society this is only going to get worse. cuts mean things having to be cut. if not this then what else?

Scholes - when you say pay into a national health insurance scheme, do you mean a bit like...... national insurance??

Don't we already pay for this?

Myself, I would happily have small charges for visiting the GP, on a sliding scale according to income, with people with chronic illnesses or disabilities and pensioners automatically free. It would help mitigate the costs of the NHS and make people less likely to miss appointments.

That, or a rise in NI coupled with Margaret Hodge organising all NHS budgetting.

The problem is, the NHS is the first resource because most private health insurance and providers in this country are shit. British health insurance won't pay for anything. Either we accept the NHS has a monopoly and fund it accordingly or we open up a proper private market with competitive rates to take the strain off the NHS.

But you can't treat the NHS as a first resource and not pay for it.

see the cynical part of me thinks that the tories don't give a shit if you die - one less to pay for

or you will pay to see a gp privately so

job done and they can then say

well people now have a choice

NHS is has already been opened up to the competitive private market.

We already have private for profit competition. Private companies acting for Gps as commissioners and private providers operating using the NHS logo.

I agree ivykaty44 in time it will become another matter of private individual responsibility. "can't afford health care......work harder"

RP, the NHS isn't a first resource because health insurance in this country is shit.

Private health in the UK is limited because the NHS is so good and covers almost everything you need.

You'll see health insurance take up increase as the NHS is left to degrade. However, as the same insurance companies in the US leave people to die rather than pay out, I suspect the health cover will still be shit.

I think we're just going the way of the USA where only the rich can afford adequate health insurance to get treated. The poor either don't get the correct treatment or die.

I'm an NHS worker and am furious the Tories are destroying it.

Parsing I know that, I mean as services start to become more constrained due to ageing population/ Tory cuts/ etc, people need an alternative. So either, better health insurance which is actually competitively priced (like Germany), or my preference, fund the NHS better.

My point about health insurance is, becuase it's not used that much, it's crap.

I also think the NHS doesn't cover a lot of stuff; personally I pay for a lot of fairly everyday healthcare stuff myself because the NHS doesn't cover it (sports physio, eyecare, some dentistry). I cannot get that stuff on the NHS and I cannot get insurance to cover it.

The poor either don't get the correct treatment or die. same as a third world country as that is what USA seems to be for a large % of the population and then rest are rich so can afford healthcare

The personal responsibility bit is already here.

Personal Health Budgets (essentially vouchers) have just been trialled for non-GP services, where the patient gets given a budget and "choice" about whether to spend it on the physiotherapy or the mobility aid. The trail showed they did not lead to clinical improvement and I think did not save money (can't check full doc just now).

Discussion of further roll-out in this Dept of Health document: Direct Payments for Healthcare

Once the structures for payment by the individual patient are in place, it will be easy to tinker with how Budgets are allocated.

So it would be easy to have a class of Ordinary People: fixed budget, once you've used up your annual allocation, you pay privately. And then a class of Genuinely Disabled? people who get more, to provide a figleaf for the conscience.

And then there will have to be an ATOS-like system to decide who makes it over the threshold to Genuinely Disabled? and who's just an unworthy person who's been ill a lot this year.

For the rich this will actually be better than the free-at-the-point-of-use NHS - they'll still use their private hospitals but be able divert taxpayers money into them (bit like Free Schools) and pay the difference themselves or from insurance.

Would health insurance even cover GP visits? I have a fairly high level of Bupa cover; I get scans, consultant appts, operations etc but certainly not GP appts. Private insurance is not for long-term or chronic health conditions. I found out the hard way!