To report colleague for racism?

[Madamecastafiore]

I just think she is incredibly thick but am finding it harder and harder to deal with her little gems lately.

Yesterday TB and whooping cough are apparently at epidemic proportions because of foreigners coming into this country.

And

She quite happily says, although lowers her voice a little (WTF) that her husband refuses to eat garlic as he couldn't stand the thought of smelling like a Paki!!!

I am in an office with her and one other woman who occasionally has a rant about foreigners taking jobs but am just about at the end of my rope with it. Ate these people just thick or I don't know, how can they think this is right?

I nearly said I felt sorry for her being married to a racist wanker but in all other respects she is actually a nice lady.

I can't ignore this can I?

[xylem8]

The 'P**i comment was unforgiveable
but the other 2 points are more factual .TB point is actually made on the NHS website ie unimmunised people coming from overseas are facilitating the spread of TB, and 'the taking our jobs' thing I wouldn't really class as racist.
BUT for your own good I would, preferably with a few colleagues confront her with the first thing.I wouldn't go to management in the first instance.A good manager will of course want to sort it out, a less good ( and particyularly if they are busy) e will find having to follow it up a ball ache and might mark your card as being 'hard work' and a 'trouble maker'

[Dawndonna]

I didn't mean literally, I mean it is people like him who think that it is acceptable to make comments like this, in public. "Play the white man" is an old insult, still used in rural areas. It means that you are apparently, not playing fairly.

[nightowlmostly]

I agree that it's not dependent on being directly spoken about or to, whether you'll be offended. I'm not gay but homophobic language offends me.

It's difficult at work, I've ended up arguing with people before about their casual use of offensive terms, and have earned myself a bit of a reputation as "someone who likes a bit of a rant" . But I think it may have worked in so far as people know that they can't talk like that in front of me. It doesn't change their thought processes I don't think, it just makes them think I'm too PC and they're in the right.

I think the use of the 'p' term here is unacceptable, but it might be best to say so directly to her at least once just for the sake of a quiet life, if you work closely together. If she doesn't stop then report her, I wouldn't hesitate.

[LemonPeculiarJones]

Ok I shall reword my comment.

claig I disagree strongly with your stance on racism.

[claig]

That's democracy.
I am against racism.
But if someone said something racist, I would not report them. You would.

I have worked with people whom I liked a lot, who have said to me
"I can't stand .... people"
where the ... refers to a country in Europe very near to us. Now I happen to love that country and have even lived there in the past. But I did not report that person, because I think that they are entitled to think what they want, even though I disagree with them.

That is the reality, in real life people think all sorts of things that we may not like, and I think they are often influenced by comedians on our state funded TV who make jokes about other countries and other people such as that European country and other European and non-European countries.

I am against racism, I am against irresponsible media and irresponsible state TV companies who push this crap, but I am not the thought police and I accept people for what they are - warts and all.

[claig]

And unfortunately the view of that country is not uncommon among many of the people in this country - particularly the more uneducated ones who swallow what they hear on the media, and what they hear on the media is often the educated Oxbridge comedians who perpetuate this crap.

I think it is very sad and it is about a lack of education of many people, but I think a lot of it comes from the top and from our media and our "educated comedians" who think it is funny or who push this crap for other reasons.

[claig]

It is pathetic that in our country in the Euros, that some thug up North attacked some tourists who were holidaying in England because they were in a German car with German number plates.

That is a disgrace and shows how uneducated and unsocialised many of our people are, and I blame our culture and our media which has headlines about that country, and our state TV comedians who make cheap jokes about that country and others, which stir up mindless thugs to act in a disgraceful manner.

[LemonPeculiarJones]

I think if someone was repeatedly making racist comments in my workplace I definitely would report them, yes. That doesn't make me the thought police.

I'm glad you have identified yourself as anti-racist. Some people, however, are apologists for racism and they might say things very similar to you in their own defence, that's all. Something to think about perhaps.

[claig]

I have got nothing to think about because I am not a racist.

How often have people in your work said something racist and how often have you reported them?

[LemonPeculiarJones]

Oh have a little think anyway - it's fun!

Haven't had to report anyone, luckily. Do you suffer racists in your workplace, but leave them unreported?

[claig]

"Haven't had to report anyone, luckily."

Exactly and that is why you haven't got a clue.

I have worked everywhere - on shopfloors, in factories, abroad and in City dealing rooms. I have met and worked with thousands of different people from all cultures and classes and that is why I have gained a good understanding of people, and in all that time I have heard hundreds of racist statements made by unthinking, uneducated people about other races and other nationalities. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon.

If I reported them all, I would not have been able to do my job.

And the racism comes from all races and nationalities towards other races and nationalities.

"Oh have a little think anyway - it's fun"

When you have some real experience of people and life, then you will be qualified to think and see that there is no fun in it.

[claig]

How old are you? How much experience of life have you had?

[LemonPeculiarJones]

Oh, claig. Don't take offence. And don't make this about me.

That must have been hard for you, to encounter in your varied work life. But all I will say is I disagree on your stance, as so many have on this thread, and I don't intend to answer any personal questions.

Preferred you when you were banging on about karma

[claig]

"That must have been hard for you, to encounter in your varied work life."

It wasn't hard because that is life. that is reality. that is how people are. It is not nice, but that is how it is.

And it is not only the uneducated on factory floors who hold views like thia. I have worked with PhDs who speak 5 languages fluently in the heart of Europe (something that would be imposssoble in our comparatively parochial country), who openly say terrible things about people from the South of Europe. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon.

[claig]

I have worked with a educated managing director no less in Italy who came from the North of Italy and who said things you wouldn't believe about people from Sicily, and I have listened to taxi drivers in Rome telling me how they can't stand the people in Milan.

[LemonPeculiarJones]

No, racism is depressingly common, as we all know. And right now it's rearing its ugly head with greater force due to recent events.

We must all speak up against it when we can.

[claig]

'And right now it's rearing its ugly head with greater force due to recent events.'

Yes, it is terrible. But in my opinion, it must be discussed openly and people must be educated - not brainwashed, not thought policed, but made to think and feel and see that people are not so different to each other, and that is best done when people come into contact with each other and share a meal and a drink and a discussion and form friendships with each other. Then the foreignness and alienness will disappear.

But before that can occur, we must get real about it. We can't deny that it is a problem and we can't sweep it under the carpet by refusing to discuss it. If we stifle people's freedom to say what they feel, then we will be fooled into believeing that they don't feel it, and we will be building up a pool of hidden resentment that will one day return and bite us (by the law of karma) and cause problems that are worse than we have now.

People on here ask why there are so many nasty messages on twitter and facebook now by people whom they thought they knew and who have now shocked them with their views. It is because those views were always there except they have been hidden.

Better not to hide our head in the sand, better to face reality and accept that they exist so that we can do something to change them and to change minds. Reporting people and punishing them won't change their minds, it will only create a worse problem for one day in the future.

[claig]

People on here are defriending people on facebook by the dozens, defriending relatives and family members and friends of friends because they are shocked by their views that have recently been revealed. They are hiding them, blanking them and defriending them.

But that won't change anything. It is no use hiding and reporting to facebook. People need to engage with these people and change their minds, not blank them or sack them.

[claig]

There have probably been so many reports of these people to facebook that they are snowed under, but reporting will achieve little to change minds.

[WidowWadman]

claig A lot of people don't want to be friends with a racist, simple as that. People are entitled to have opinions, but that doesn't mean that their entitled to never be challenged, or ostracised for that matter. If someone sullies my timeline with a post from an EDL site, they're gone.



And you keep contradicting yourself, as you say people should not be challenged other than by saying "but someone I know is an immigrant", nor reported, and now those who don't want to hear/read racist or other shit should not defriend them either.

I also don't understand this banging on about how you know foreigners who are racists or xenophobes, too.

Just because you get them everywhere on the planet, it doesn't make it right.

[claig]

'claig A lot of people don't want to be friends with a racist, simple as that.'

You are kidding yourself. People have been friends with people for years and now they are seeing on facebook that they are making racist comments that shock them. These people have not changed, they are the same people that they were before, except they hid their views. Now they think they can make them public, because they believe there is safety in numbers and that lots of others feel the same. Most of those people will still remain friends with them. I haven't ended my friendship with colleagues at work because they said something racist, because they are decent people in many other ways, even though they hold some views I disagree with. That is reality.


"And you keep contradicting yourself, as you say people should not be challenged other than by saying "but someone I know is an immigrant", nor reported, and now those who don't want to hear/read racist or other shit should not defriend them either."

I never said people should not be challenged. I am against people being reported, because I think that is counterproductive and will build up a hidden resentment that will one day resurface in a worse form by the law of karma. I think you should have challenged your boss and said you felt uncomfortable rather than keeping silent and regretting that you did not report her. I believe in engaging with people openly and trying to change their minds, not in reporting them and punishing them, because I think the former is teh more effective way of effecting change.


'and now those who don't want to hear/read racist or other shit should not defriend them either.'

I believe in freedom of people to do what they want. If they want to defriend them, that is fine by me. I believe everyone is a free agent and has responsibility for their own actions. I don't believe that others are complicit for the actions of what other people do. But I don't think that defriending people is an effective way to change their ex-friends attitudes. I think it is better to engage with them and change their opinions, but not in a confrontational, accustaory, blaming mannner but in a subtle manner that makes them realise how similar people are and close they really are such as saying "my sister's boyfriend is an immigrant", that brings it close to them, brings it home to them and makes them realise how ridiculous they are better than telling them off and punishing them.


"I also don't understand this banging on about how you know foreigners who are racists or xenophobes, too.
Just because you get them everywhere on the planet, it doesn't make it right."

It is not about "making it right", it is about "getting real".
It is not right that New Labour created an environment when people's concerns about immigration could not be openly discussed and addressed without accusations of immigration, and New Labour have now realised that and apologised about that and said that they are starting to get real

It is about getting real and facing reality and changing minds rather than what you may think is right

[claig]

And your boss happened to disagree with the levels of immigration, and you wanted to report her. But New Labour now say that people can disagree with the levels of immigration, and Gordon Brown apologised to Mrs Duffy for saying, behind her back after having shaken her hand, that she was a "bigoted" woman because she questioned immigration.

They have started to get real and that is right

[claig]

Gordon Brown called Mrs Duffy a good woman and shook her hand on camera. He was getting down with the people, he had stepped out of his ivory tower. But then behind her back, he spoke ill of her and called her a bigoted woman.

Then the law of karma had its way, and his actions were revealed and he had to apologise.

I stick by the law of karma and the wise pagan "law of three", known as the threefold way, "don't speak ill of others", "don't do unto others what you would not have done unto you", don't report others, otherwise the fates wil intervene and karma will come to you.

[claig]

Gordon brown broke the three fold law and he then got what for, and now he knows the score. Don't mess with karma because it is a chameleon and comes back in many guises and strips you of your power and prizes.