To report colleague for racism?

[Madamecastafiore]

I just think she is incredibly thick but am finding it harder and harder to deal with her little gems lately.

Yesterday TB and whooping cough are apparently at epidemic proportions because of foreigners coming into this country.

And

She quite happily says, although lowers her voice a little (WTF) that her husband refuses to eat garlic as he couldn't stand the thought of smelling like a Paki!!!

I am in an office with her and one other woman who occasionally has a rant about foreigners taking jobs but am just about at the end of my rope with it. Ate these people just thick or I don't know, how can they think this is right?

I nearly said I felt sorry for her being married to a racist wanker but in all other respects she is actually a nice lady.

I can't ignore this can I?

[hackmum]

You could always try reasoning with her politely. For example, if she mouths off about TB you could point out that the British wiped out whole populations when they colonised other countries by introducing diseases such as measles and syphilis that the natives had no immunity to.

[claig]

'I did speak to someone who has advised me what to do next time it happens.'

Did they explain why the policy doesn't apply this time, and what is different about next time?

[claig]

"I travelled with a group of Asian 10-year olds from the all-Asian Farnham Primary School in Great Horton as they visited their white counterparts at the largely white St Anthony's Catholic school. For most of them, it was their third trip. "What was it like the first time you visited St Anthony's?" I asked one child.

"I was nervous," he said.

"Why were you nervous?"

"Because I didn't know what they'd be like. I'd never met them before."

"You'd never met white children before?"

"No."

"Do you know any white children apart from those at St Anthony's?"

"No."

Could this really be Britain, 2003?"


www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/oct/29/race.world1



It is when people meet each other and see that they are all the same that the divide and rule strategies from the top against the French or anyone else will fail. When the idiots at work meet French people and when they go to France, then they will realise that the media and some of the Oxbridge set have been misleading them.


I think you are Polish if I remember rightly. I hope you remember on the thread about the Euros in Poland and Ukraine how I stood up for the Poles and Ukrainians against our BBC state media bullshit propaganda programme where they tried to scare the public that people black people risked being killed if they went to Poland and Ukraine to watch the football. They smeared the entire nation of Poland and Ukraine and I explained why they did it and why they did the same to the entire nation of Spain when they were competing with them to win the Olympics.

This crap comes from the top. Their views influence the ordinary people who have never been to France, Poland or the Ukraine.

[Madamecastafiore]

Thanks Cat. I think there is not much chance of this in our organisation. People would be shocked and disgusted with her. We even have a section at the end of meetings where a diversity and equality monitor asks if anyone has been offended during the meeting. Someone made a joke about an autistic accountant and that was brought up so the word paki would be really be taken seriously.

And do you know what, I am like you and would rather not work there if this sort of crap is tolerated.

Sorry to hear about your experience though. Bloody awful situation.

I did speak to someone who has advised me what to do next time it happens. And pointed out that we have a policy where obvious racism has to be reported. Not sure if this is obvious or she just really stupid but either way needs to stop.

[cat]

OP - please think carefully before you do anything

I never thought I'd type those words, unitl my own experience last year, which I posted about on MN extensively.

I worked in a further education college as a subject tutor. My line manager casually used words like chink and paki in relation to students.

None of us were brave enough to say anything to her face as she was a bit of a cow anyway so I had a quiet work with our 'Equality and Diversity representative'. Next thing I knew I was dragged up to HR to give a statement. Four days later I received a letter in the post from HR saying I was being investigated for bullying and negative behaviour in the workplace. My boss had got her two friends to put in false complaints about me. My boss was investigated and got a slap on the wrist. I was investigated and it escalated all the way up to the principle. They pulled apart every aspect of my work and my relationships with colleagues. And every level it went up in the system, they all just closed ranks and protected each other. I had the Union involved from day 1, but it was no use as everything was twisted to make sure I looked terrible.

I was eventually sacked for gross misconduct.

But you know what? I would do it all again tomorrow. I've now left education as the corruption and the fact they were prepared to turn a blind eye to casual racism has disillusioned and left a very bitter taste in my mouth.

[claig]

UKIP gained 25% of the vote in local elections recently. New Labour have admitted that they were wrong to try and stifle open, honest debate on immigration.

Stalinist suppression, restraints on free and open discussion and burying heads in the sand will not work and the consequences if those policies are carried out will be far worse. And unfortunately, i don't think that diversity training will solve it either, I think it may even make it worse.

"Ever heard of Bonhoeffer?"
Yes, I have heard of him.

Have you ever heard of Kenan Malik?
He is anti-racist just like me, and here is one of his Guardian articles.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/oct/29/race.world1

[claig]

But I do stand up for those who are at the receiving end and I do it by using reason and trying to change people's minds.

There have been numerous times when I have tried to change people's attitudes. At work, it has been very common for me to have heard anti-French sentiments for example. Now I love france and I have lived there, so I have tried to correct their misconceptions of France and the French.

Colleagues have said that they hate or dislike the French, that the French cheat us on the EU as usual etc etc

I simply say "do you know any French people? Have you met any French people? Have you ever been to France?" and of course teh answer to all 3 is no.

So where do they get these opinions about France as opposed to Austria, for example. They get them from our media, our culture and from teh top. they only have to watch their idols and their "comedians" on our state TV channels and in programmes like "Have i Got News For You?" where they can hear the Oxbridge set making jokes about how the french have stitched uus up again or "that's the French for you etc".

I am against all this crap by ignorant people who haven't got a clue about France or many other places either.

I have challenged people and in my early days I would get angry with them as I defended the French, but my experience taught me that that does not work and their views only become more entrenched.

I am for defeating ignorance and racism and I believe that is best done by using a subtle approach rather than punishing people for their views and forcing them to keep them secret, which only breeds a latent resentment that will return one day in a much worse form.

[WidowWadman]

"It exists alright, but it won't get me because I do not tell others to ODFO or speak ill of them behind their backs. I do not harbour bitter feelings and do not wish ill on anyone and do not wish that karma will bite them."

And you don't speak up for or stand by those who are at the receiving end of racism and xenophobia, as you value no ill feeling from the racists and the xenophobes more.

"I follow the threefold law, "do unto others as you would have done unto you"."

I don't call it threefold law, but basic human decency. And part of this "doing onto others" is defending them against racists, xenophobes and other unpleasant bigots instead of not doing anything at all, which is what you advocate.


Ever heard of Bonhoeffer?

[claig]

"Outa here!"

Goodbye and have a nice day.

[claig]

It exists alright, but it won't get me because I do not tell others to ODFO or speak ill of them behind their backs. I do not harbour bitter feelings and do not wish ill on anyone and do not wish that karma will bite them.

I follow the threefold law, "do unto others as you would have done unto you".

[Dawndonna]

It's okay Claig, if Karma does exist then you'll get your little bite on the arse won't you.
Outa here!

[claig]

You have misunderstood what we are talking about.

I am against racism and I don't back down to it or to bullies who tell me to ODFO because they have no argument, and who change the subject and bring in the fact that the National Front have attacked them, which is nothing to do what we are talking about.

[Dawndonna]

No, we're talking about the fact that people continue to call you on what is basically a racist apologist attitude and you have not backed down and refuse to see where you're going wrong. So in fact, we are talking about that, aren't we Claig.

[claig]

"Do not speak ill of others", try not to say ODFO, because karma really exists

[claig]

'I pointed out that I've been beaten up because of the colour of my sking and that my 16 year old gets racist remarks and still you go on about Karma.'

And I said that was wrong and those people should be punished. We are not talking about that, DawnDonna.

[claig]

'Weirdly your Karma woo seems to only hit people who object to racism and xenophobia.'

No it doesn't. Karma affects everybody on the planet. No one can escape however rich and seemingly powerful that they are, for the high can be brought low if they transgress the universal law. The threefold law has no boundaries and has no favourites. Gordon Brown and the powerful are subject to it in the same way as the ordinary person.

Do not speak ill of people, do not make nasty comments about them, do not be racist towards them, do not speak ill of them behind their backs, do not be a hypocrite.

"Do not speak ill of others", "do unto others as you would have done unto you" is a universal law.

[Dawndonna]

ODFO Claig
You've worked with the whole fucking world, you've learnt to speak bullshit fluently and still you peddle views that are essentially racist. I pointed out that I've been beaten up because of the colour of my sking and that my 16 year old gets racist remarks and still you go on about Karma. You say that when people have real experience they can comment. Well, I'm 54, I have real experience and I have the various degrees you remark upon. I still say from factory floor to boardroom a racist remark is a racist remark, it's illegal and should therefore be reported. Now go peddle your crackpot karma elsewhere.

[WidowWadman]

Weirdly your Karma woo seems to only hit people who object to racism and xenophobia.

[claig]

Gordon brown broke the three fold law and he then got what for, and now he knows the score. Don't mess with karma because it is a chameleon and comes back in many guises and strips you of your power and prizes.

[claig]

Gordon Brown called Mrs Duffy a good woman and shook her hand on camera. He was getting down with the people, he had stepped out of his ivory tower. But then behind her back, he spoke ill of her and called her a bigoted woman.

Then the law of karma had its way, and his actions were revealed and he had to apologise.

I stick by the law of karma and the wise pagan "law of three", known as the threefold way, "don't speak ill of others", "don't do unto others what you would not have done unto you", don't report others, otherwise the fates wil intervene and karma will come to you.

[claig]

And your boss happened to disagree with the levels of immigration, and you wanted to report her. But New Labour now say that people can disagree with the levels of immigration, and Gordon Brown apologised to Mrs Duffy for saying, behind her back after having shaken her hand, that she was a "bigoted" woman because she questioned immigration.

They have started to get real and that is right

[claig]

'claig A lot of people don't want to be friends with a racist, simple as that.'

You are kidding yourself. People have been friends with people for years and now they are seeing on facebook that they are making racist comments that shock them. These people have not changed, they are the same people that they were before, except they hid their views. Now they think they can make them public, because they believe there is safety in numbers and that lots of others feel the same. Most of those people will still remain friends with them. I haven't ended my friendship with colleagues at work because they said something racist, because they are decent people in many other ways, even though they hold some views I disagree with. That is reality.


"And you keep contradicting yourself, as you say people should not be challenged other than by saying "but someone I know is an immigrant", nor reported, and now those who don't want to hear/read racist or other shit should not defriend them either."

I never said people should not be challenged. I am against people being reported, because I think that is counterproductive and will build up a hidden resentment that will one day resurface in a worse form by the law of karma. I think you should have challenged your boss and said you felt uncomfortable rather than keeping silent and regretting that you did not report her. I believe in engaging with people openly and trying to change their minds, not in reporting them and punishing them, because I think the former is teh more effective way of effecting change.


'and now those who don't want to hear/read racist or other shit should not defriend them either.'

I believe in freedom of people to do what they want. If they want to defriend them, that is fine by me. I believe everyone is a free agent and has responsibility for their own actions. I don't believe that others are complicit for the actions of what other people do. But I don't think that defriending people is an effective way to change their ex-friends attitudes. I think it is better to engage with them and change their opinions, but not in a confrontational, accustaory, blaming mannner but in a subtle manner that makes them realise how similar people are and close they really are such as saying "my sister's boyfriend is an immigrant", that brings it close to them, brings it home to them and makes them realise how ridiculous they are better than telling them off and punishing them.


"I also don't understand this banging on about how you know foreigners who are racists or xenophobes, too.
Just because you get them everywhere on the planet, it doesn't make it right."

It is not about "making it right", it is about "getting real".
It is not right that New Labour created an environment when people's concerns about immigration could not be openly discussed and addressed without accusations of immigration, and New Labour have now realised that and apologised about that and said that they are starting to get real

It is about getting real and facing reality and changing minds rather than what you may think is right

[WidowWadman]

claig A lot of people don't want to be friends with a racist, simple as that. People are entitled to have opinions, but that doesn't mean that their entitled to never be challenged, or ostracised for that matter. If someone sullies my timeline with a post from an EDL site, they're gone.



And you keep contradicting yourself, as you say people should not be challenged other than by saying "but someone I know is an immigrant", nor reported, and now those who don't want to hear/read racist or other shit should not defriend them either.

I also don't understand this banging on about how you know foreigners who are racists or xenophobes, too.

Just because you get them everywhere on the planet, it doesn't make it right.

[claig]

There have probably been so many reports of these people to facebook that they are snowed under, but reporting will achieve little to change minds.

[claig]

People on here are defriending people on facebook by the dozens, defriending relatives and family members and friends of friends because they are shocked by their views that have recently been revealed. They are hiding them, blanking them and defriending them.

But that won't change anything. It is no use hiding and reporting to facebook. People need to engage with these people and change their minds, not blank them or sack them.