To report colleague for racism?

[Madamecastafiore]

I just think she is incredibly thick but am finding it harder and harder to deal with her little gems lately.

Yesterday TB and whooping cough are apparently at epidemic proportions because of foreigners coming into this country.

And

She quite happily says, although lowers her voice a little (WTF) that her husband refuses to eat garlic as he couldn't stand the thought of smelling like a Paki!!!

I am in an office with her and one other woman who occasionally has a rant about foreigners taking jobs but am just about at the end of my rope with it. Ate these people just thick or I don't know, how can they think this is right?

I nearly said I felt sorry for her being married to a racist wanker but in all other respects she is actually a nice lady.

I can't ignore this can I?

[digerd]

I remember reading and hearing about the increase of TB in this country during the increase of immigrants. But it wasn't mentioned which countries/ nationalities TB prevailed in.

I do know in UK it was practically unheard of after the testing and innoculations in the 40s - 60s.
I was immune at 6 years old and 14. Then somebody told me that I was not necessarily immune for life, as I never had the injection and they were .

People have the right to think what they like, but not to speak out loud and insult anybody for whatever reason. In other words, keep their nasty thoughts to themselves.

[WidowWadman]

claig -the thing with people who say stupid xenophobic things, either because they mean them or because they're thoughtless, is that they often end up saying them to the very people they're talking about, either because they mean to, or because they forget that the person they're talking to is an immigrant.

I once had a "jokey" email forwarded to me (and the whole team) by a senior team member, with a picture of the Cliffs of Dover with a sign saying "Fuck off we're full". Another senior team member laughed openly in agreement at this mail, which already had been forwarded multiple times internally. They had forgotten me and another colleague were immigrants. I had quiet word with the MD's PA (no HR in that place), as that attitude really made me and my other immigrant colleagues really uncomfortable.

I had an anonymous box of chocolate by way of apology on my desk a few days later, but never an official statement that the company would not condone such behaviour.

FWIW, making a note of this and bringing it up when I was put at risk of redundancy a few months later helped me retaining my job long enough until I found something at a company with better anti-discrimination policies.

At another job I was driving with my then line manager to a meeting when she told me that she thought that the BNP were right about immigration, and there's to many incomers and yada yada yada. She already had been sent to diversity training and wore that as a badge of pride. I was sorely tempted to report her, but was a bit disillusioned by my previous experience, and worried about endangering my career. But actually I regret not reporting her, as people with line management responsibility should know better than knowingly make their staff uncomfortable.

[Southeastdweller]

Of course you should report this ignorant cow. No need at all to confront her.

By the way, why wouldn't you want to get her in trouble?

[WidowWadman]

Another thing claig: your're saying

"As for confronting bosses. Yes I would not be afraid to confront a boss or fear recriminations because I would not confront them in a hostile or aggressive manner. I would simply say something like

"You shouldn't say that, it's not nice" in a friendly manner so that they would get the message without being offended which avoids getting their back up and reacting in a hostile manner."

This tells me that you probably have never confronted anyone about something racist or xenophobe. You're naive if you believe that people would not react offended or hostile to being confronted.

[bankofmum]

How is it racist to believe we need to control immigration?

[claig]

WidowWadman, you are right that the email is totally out of order because that was broadcast to lots of people by someone in management on a company computer, so I am surprised that the company didn't do more on that.

Your boss was stupid too, but I would have said something like "but I'm an immigrant" and would have let it go as it was a first occurrence. Obviously if she kept saying things like that to you (who are an immigrant) then I would have reported her. I think that your boss was anti-immigration but that doesn't mean that she is a racist. However, she should not have aired her views in front of you because you are an immigrant.

[claig]

"This tells me that you probably have never confronted anyone about something racist or xenophobe. You're naive if you believe that people would not react offended or hostile to being confronted."

I don't make a habit of confronting people about what they say to me. I keep it in mind and try to avoid nasty people because I think it is bad karma to hang about with nasty people.

But I have worked with people who have said all sorts of things that are nasty and not politically correct, because that is how people are.

People make all kinds of sick jokes about things and if I feel that a joke is really out of order I say something like "no that's not funny". That is enough to express disapproval and people get the message that there are limits.

It is the same if I express disapproval about anything else they say. But on the whole I accept people as they are and do not pull them up on what they are saying to me, and I don't report them.

[TheSmallClanger]

Round of applause for claig for being so laid-back and cool with everything.

Seriously, the racist bigot person is going to get annoyed at being challenged whether it comes from the OP or their manager. I would go with the option that has the least action needed from me. Also, managers are paid to deal with team interpersonal stuff.

[claig]

"Seriously, the racist bigot person is going to get annoyed at being challenged whether it comes from the OP or their manager."

No they won't. If you are a colleague and friend and work with them day in day out then they know you and will listen to you and not get the hump when you say something to them. But if you are a total stranger then of course they will get the hump if you confront them about what they say.

[SanityClause]

A colleague in our very small office sometimes makes racist comments.

I always give her short shrift, although it does help that I am senior to her, in the office.

It's quite weird, as neither of us is originally British.

[claig]

If you want to stop someone slagging immigrants off then all you have to do is say

"my sister's boyfriend is an immigrant"
even if he isn't

that will stop them in their tracks, it won't get their back up and they will apologise.

People are generally decent and will realise that they have said something offensive. You can let them know without pissing them off and reporting them, which will only backfire and create a hidden resentment.

[TheSmallClanger]

Racists and other assorted bigots are not normally decent. That's the problem.

[Southeastdweller]

Brilliant post, jammiedonut. You've said everything I'm too tired to. This remark was especially enlightening:

If this was a male making derogatory comments about females no one would be suggesting you tackle this yourself

Too bloody right. Report her.

[WidowWadman]

"If you want to stop someone slagging immigrants off then all you have to do is say

"my sister's boyfriend is an immigrant"
even if he isn't

that will stop them in their tracks, it won't get their back up and they will apologise.

People are generally decent and will realise that they have said something offensive. You can let them know without pissing them off and reporting them, which will only backfire and create a hidden resentment."

You have no idea what you're talking about, claig. Standard response to "I am an immigrant" or "such and such is an immigrant" is "Oh, but I don't mean you/them" thinking that that makes it ok.

You're totally talking out of your arse, and in a way you're siding with the fuckwits and the thoughtless ones. Which is in my book not far off in level of offensiveness.

Why on earth do you want to avoid annoying someone when they said something utterly offensive and hurtful? Why do you advocate pussyfooting around people with indefensible views?

[claig]

TheSmallClanger, Gordon Brown thought that Mrs Duffy was a bigot for talking about immigration. Of course, Mrs Duffy is a decent person, and so are the majority of people even if they occasionally say bigoted things.

Lots of people say things that are not politically correct or that are not nice in pubs all over the country.

As SanityClause said

"A colleague in our very small office sometimes makes racist comments.
It's quite weird, as neither of us is originally British."

It doesn't mean she is not a decent person most of the time.

[claig]

"You have no idea what you're talking about, claig. Standard response to "I am an immigrant" or "such and such is an immigrant" is "Oh, but I don't mean you/them" thinking that that makes it ok."

I'm sorry but I think I do. Of course they say, "I didn't mean you" and that does make ity OK because the result is that they stop saying it to you now that you have pointed it out to them. For me that is teh point, to stop them saying it, not to punish them.

[WidowWadman]

FWIW, my being against slagging off immigrants has nothing to do with me being an immigrant myself. I was very much against xenophobia long before I emigrated.
The argument that "you shouldn't say something because I know someone who is an immigrant" is utterly utterly shite. Either you oppose xenophobia or you don't. Whether you know any immigrants personally doesn't make a difference (and having an immigrant/black/muslim/whatever friend is often used by xenophobic/racist/islamophobic/etc wankers as an excuse so they can say that "I'm not xenophobic/racist/islamophobic/etc, and I can prove it because xyz is my friend", followed by something incredibly xenophobic/racist/islamophobic/etc/

[WidowWadman]

claig - if you think the point about challenging them is just to make them stop saying it to you/in your presence you've utterly missed the point.

"But I didn't mean you" does make nothing ok. It's just fucking offensive.

[claig]

"You're totally talking out of your arse, and in a way you're siding with the fuckwits and the thoughtless ones. Which is in my book not far off in level of offensiveness.

Why on earth do you want to avoid annoying someone when they said something utterly offensive and hurtful? Why do you advocate pussyfooting around people with indefensible views?"

I'm not talking "out of my arse" and you are starting to be very aggressive and rude. Are you like this with your work colleagues when they disagree with you, do you tell them they "are talking out of your arse"?


I don't treat people as fuckwits, because I have met all types of people and know what people are like. If you think that I am "offensive" because I don't treat them as fuckwits and tell them "you are talking out of your arse" then I think you have a problem.

"Why on earth do you want to avoid annoying someone when they said something utterly offensive and hurtful?"

I don't go around telling people they "are talking out of their arse2 or picking fights with people because they say things I disagree with. i disagree with you but I don't tell you "you are talking out of your arse".
If they have not insulted me directly and have not insulted anyone else present, then I don't start an argument with them.

[claig]

"claig - if you think the point about challenging them is just to make them stop saying it to you/in your presence you've utterly missed the point."

But that is the point for me. I only want them to stop saying it and hence learn that it was not the thing to say. I am not judge and jury to punish them.

[WidowWadman]

claig - maybe I'm getting a bit aggressive, granted. But I don't have the luxury of not being affected directly, so I just can't be as unbothered about it as you are.

[claig]

"Either you oppose xenophobia or you don't."

It's not about opposing it. I am not going to get into a fight about it. i don't like it, but I won't start a confrontation if some is xenophobic. i don't like New Labour, but I won't start a confrontation with someone who supports New Labour either.

If someone is xenophobic that is their problem not mine. I'm not going to start an argument to stop them.

[WidowWadman]

"If someone is xenophobic that is their problem not mine. I'm not going to start an argument to stop them."

It's not only their problem, but the problem of everyone who is negatively affected by xenophobia. If you don't challenge them, either directly, or by reporting it to someone who can deal with it in a professional manner you stand by the xenophobes, and you are taking part in creating an atmosphere which makes those on the receiving end uncomfortable. If you don't challenge or report, you're complicit.

[claig]

"If you don't challenge or report, you're complicit."

Rubbish. That sounds like something out of the Stasi handbook. I am not complicit at all.I am not the thought police, I am not here to censor people's thoughts or speech. They are free agents. It is up to them what they choose to think or say. Their thoughts and words do not make me complicit.

[claig]

'and you are taking part in creating an atmosphere which makes those on the receiving end uncomfortable'

You said I am talking out of my arse, does that mean that everyone who saw that and didn't intervene is complicit and guilty of "taking part in creating an atmosphere which made me feel uncomfortable?

You are responsible for your words, no one else.