To report colleague for racism?

[Madamecastafiore]

I just think she is incredibly thick but am finding it harder and harder to deal with her little gems lately.

Yesterday TB and whooping cough are apparently at epidemic proportions because of foreigners coming into this country.

And

She quite happily says, although lowers her voice a little (WTF) that her husband refuses to eat garlic as he couldn't stand the thought of smelling like a Paki!!!

I am in an office with her and one other woman who occasionally has a rant about foreigners taking jobs but am just about at the end of my rope with it. Ate these people just thick or I don't know, how can they think this is right?

I nearly said I felt sorry for her being married to a racist wanker but in all other respects she is actually a nice lady.

I can't ignore this can I?

[claig]

'I was very much against xenophobia long before I emigrated.'

If you want to end xenophobia, then you need to get smart instead of insulting.

You need to change people's minds and opinions, and you won't be able to do that by calling them "fuckwits" and insulting them, because that will only get their backs up and they will become even more xenophobic.

You need to adopt a subtle approach like telling them that your sister's boyfriend is an immigrant. Then they will stop automatically and begin to change their minds out of consideration for you.

You have to get people onside not alienate them by calling them racist, xenophobic fuckwits.

[chickieno1]

A lot of you are missing the point. Op works in the NHS there is absolutely no place for racism and the comments should be reported! Anyone who needs treatment or nhs services regardless of ethnicity should be treated with dignity and respect.

Report her!

[burberryqueen]

You need to adopt a subtle approach like telling them that your sister's boyfriend is an immigrant
hehe I used to do that, tell people my dad was Pakistani or Jewish when they came out with racist stuff, it freaked them right out, (blonde hair and blue eyes here)

[WidowWadman]

claig "You need to adopt a subtle approach like telling them that your sister's boyfriend is an immigrant. Then they will stop automatically and begin to change their minds out of consideration for you.£

Believe me, your subtle approach doesn't work. It doesn't change minds, at all. They don't stop and they don't change their minds.

For what it's worth, when encountering a racist or xenophobe at work I don't call them fuckwit (but report).

[nkf]

Isn't the point of reporting is that it takes it out of your hands and into the hands of people whose job it is to monitor and advise. If you make it into, "I don't like it," it becomes personal. But the real problem is that it is not how people should be talking at work. If she learns that and stops, she would benefit.

[WidowWadman]

claig

"You said I am talking out of my arse, does that mean that everyone who saw that and didn't intervene is complicit and guilty of "taking part in creating an atmosphere which made me feel uncomfortable?

You are responsible for your words, no one else."

Oh does it make you uncomfortable being called out?

Firstly - this is not a work place, but AIBU.
In a work place I usually use less robust language than here, but all I said is that I doubt that your theory of "but my sister's boyfriend is an immigrant" making xenophobes change their hearts and minds is based on experience.

[claig]

"For what it's worth, when encountering a racist or xenophobe at work I don't call them fuckwit (but report)."

This is what you said earlier

"She already had been sent to diversity training and wore that as a badge of pride. I was sorely tempted to report her, but was a bit disillusioned by my previous experience, and worried about endangering my career. But actually I regret not reporting her, as people with line management responsibility should know better than knowingly make their staff uncomfortable."

Good luck to you if you think reporting will be successful. I prefer a subtle approach where you can change people's minds, attitude and behaviour without escalating things and reporting people behind their backs.

[claig]

'Oh does it make you uncomfortable being called out?'

I have nothing to be called out about, but it seems that you have an overactive imagination. I don't appreciate being told that "I am talking out of my arse" when havingh a polite discussion, but that seems to be your way of escalating confrontation.


"In a work place I usually use less robust language than here"
I hope so because otherwise you are unlucky to have a very successful career. Working with people means dealing with people and you can't do that by insulting them or putting their backs up, much better to try and win friends and influence people.

[claig]

unlikely not unlucky

[WidowWadman]

claig - that person would not change her mind if you used your "subtle ways" either. She wouldn't even begin to keep her views to herself.

[Lazyjaney]

A lotbof people here seem to assume that you make an accusation and the nasty person gets their knuckles rapped and that's it. It isn't.

Managers groan when this sort of thing happens as it becomes a he said/she said issue, unless the evidence and witnesses are very clear. That means they have to start talking to people, and it gets around.

The accused then always demands to know who the accuser is, and always counter accuses them of being a shit stirrer with a grudge, someone who doesn't pull their weight etc etc. If they suspect who made the accusation they may well pull in witnesses of their own to shaft you.

The manager then has to investigate the counter accusations, and on it goes. So OP, if you do this make sure you are squeaky clean, and be prepared to get counter accusations.

[claig]

'that person would not change her mind if you used your "subtle ways" either.'

Why don't you try it before writing her off as a lost cause.

"I was sorely tempted to report her, but was a bit disillusioned by my previous experience, and worried about endangering my career. But actually I regret not reporting her"

Instead of champing at the bit and reporting people, why don't you just use a subtle approach so that she realises that what she has said was wrong and can change her behaviour. She is not an ogre, she is just a person and she will change her attitude if you use a subtle approach to show her that she was wrong.

Try it, don't have regrets about not reporting, do something effective to show her the right way.

[claig]

"and always counter accuses them of being a shit stirrer with a grudge, someone who doesn't pull their weight etc etc. If they suspect who made the accusation they may well pull in witnesses of their own to shaft you."

Excellent point. If someone reports people at the drop of a hat, they will soon get a reputation for it, and the people reported may accuse them of doing it unnecessarily and of having it in for them.

[WidowWadman]

claig - she knew I was an immigrant. She talked about other colleagues who are immigrants, and was quite proud of having been sent to diversity training with no effect.

Since you don't know her, and didn't have to work with her, how do you know that she's not the utterly unpleasant person, I remember her as?

In the end I left to go to work elsewhere where I wasn't confronted with that shit.

[claig]

"claig - she knew I was an immigrant."

yes, and that is why I said earlier on that you should have confronted her directly by saying "but i am an immigrant" in order to see what her reaction would be. My guess is that she would have said "but I don't mean you" and she would soon have stopped going on about it in front of you if that is how you dealt with it every time she opened her mouth about it.

[claig]

By saying it iopenly rather than leaving it as understood not not said, it would have brought it in to the open and she would have had no recourse but to stop. By not confronting her and by just taking it, she just carried on doing it.

[WidowWadman]

claig -so I should have said "but I'm an immigrant" to see what her reaction would be after she said "I know you're an immigrant, but think the BNP is right about immigration"? Reaheally? What do you think that would have achieved?

[WidowWadman]

Also, you seem to be under the misapprehension that "not being meant" makes it better. It doesn't.

[claig]

Then teh next stage is that you should have said that this conversation is making you feel uncomfortable because you are an immigrant yourself. I think she would have stopped then.

[WidowWadman]

[claig]

"Also, you seem to be under the misapprehension that "not being meant" makes it better. It doesn't."

A person is allowed to hold anti-immigration views. GordonBrown apologised to Mrs Duffy for calling her a bigoted woman simply because she thought there was too much immigration.

But a person should not make you feel uncomfortable at work and if you point out that you are uncomfortable about her views then she should stop.

[Dawndonna]

I've been watching this.
Claig I honestly think that you live in a complete fantasy world. I am of Spanish descent. I have black hair and olive skin, not particularly dark now, we tend to get lighter as we get older. My dd is similar. We have been called the 'p' word so many times. I have been beaten up by the National Front and spat at by the BNP. My dd is constantly teased at school about being Asian, even by a teacher! Admittedly she goes to school in a small rural village where multiculturalism arrived 30 years later than anywhere else, but saying my friend/partner whatever is an immigrant is not going to wash. Being nice isn't going to work. Prejudice is wrong and should be tackled and as it's a not too subtle thing, generally a subtle approach doesn't work.

[claig]

"We have been called the 'p' word so many times. I have been beaten up by the National Front and spat at by the BNP. My dd is constantly teased at school about being Asian, even by a teacher!"

DawnDonna, this is completely different. If someone is abusing you directly and personally then they need to be punished immediately and reported and disciplined and sacked etc. There is no argument about that.

What we are talking about here, is someone saying something racist or offensive in front of somebody who is not being abused or attacked. And the issue is shoud that person then report it.

[Dawndonna]

Yes they should, of course they should and there shouldn't be a discussion about it. That's my point. The woman's dh is probably the moron who has called me a garlic loving foreigner (insert p word) or told me to play the 'white man' if I accidently step into the wrong part of the queue. Interestingly, my fair skinned, freckly, blue eyed sister (takes after my father's side) has never had a comment.

[claig]

"The woman's dh is probably the moron who has called me a garlic loving foreigner (insert p word) or told me to play the 'white man' if I accidently step into the wrong part of the queue."

I very much doubt it was him and I don't think it is right to accuse people without evidence. I don't really understand what you mean by "play the white man".